McCain's Veep

RadioFan · Post by **RadioFan** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 2:10 am

War Wagon wrote:We're on the same page 'tart, but if our 'side' is going to unequivocably state that "abortion is murder, period"... which we have, then those questions are bound to follow and deserve serious answers

Jay asked in a very well thought out way, no bullshit tactics whatsoever.

Exactly. It isn't a black and white issue -- not by a longshot -- especially when it come to public policy and personal responsibility.

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 2:22 am

Wagon, such cases DO occur, no doubt, and we all know it.
But they are not remotely close to being the norm.

So why ask?

Nothing is perfect, and situations do come up for which there is no 'good' answer.
So in those RARE cases, you have to make a decision one way or the other.
That's the name of that tune.

"Now is not a good time for mommy" isn't one of those RARE cases.

By muddying the water with these extreme case scenarios, the pro-choice crowd is making a weird attempt to say, "SEE, it's not all black and white, so we have to be flexible to accomodate a LOT of different situations."

So sorry, that dog won't hunt.
It's total bullshit.

As a society, we owe it to ... society ... to recognize the very obvious fact that life begins at conception.

Diogenes · Post by **Diogenes** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 2:25 am

Trying to make some sense of it all
But I can see that it makes no sense at all
Is it cool to go to sleep on the floor
Cause I don't think that I can take anymore
Clowns to the left of me
Jokers to the right, here I am
Stuck in the middle with you

Diogenes · Post by **Diogenes** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 2:30 am

Taken from redstate.org...

Impact of palin's speech from survey USA...
Survey USA Breakdown:

Surveying INDEPENDENT VOTERS, is Gov. Palin an asset or liability to the GOP ticket?
Asset? 09/03/08 = 43% 09/04/08 = 56%
Liability? 09/03/08 = 44% 09/04/08 = 27%
(Margin of error +/- 6)

Surveying MODERATE VOTERS, is Gov. Palin an asset or liability to the GOP ticket?
Asset? 09/03/08 = 38% 09/04/08 = 48%
Liability? 09/03/08 = 49% 09/04/08 = 30%
(Margin of error +/-5)

Back to tardapalooza...

BSmack · Post by **BSmack** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 3:20 am

War Wagon wrote:Where's LabRat?

He's alive and well. He took on a new teaching gig and doesn't have time for posting anymore. It's our loss and his new school district's gain.

RadioFan · Post by **RadioFan** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 3:22 am

poptart wrote:But they are not remotely close to being the norm.

When it comes to this issue, there is no "norm," mensa.

Are you having trouble understanding this concept, and if you were never born, would you care about it?

Wanna play?

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 3:28 am

Of course there is a norm.

The norm is that life begins at conception.

Aside from the two extreme situations which Jay presented, and which we all already know about, is there any other scenario in which we should ... step over ... the reality that life begins at conception, and kill the growing child?

Tell me the scenario.

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 3:43 am

BSmack wrote:
War Wagon wrote:Where's LabRat?
He's alive and well. He took on a new teaching gig and doesn't have time for posting anymore. It's our loss and his new school district's gain.

Pity.

Here's to hoping he still has time for a few Johnny Walker Reds now and then.

Diogenes · Post by **Diogenes** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 3:45 am

Well you started out with nothing and you're proud that you're a
Self made man
And your friends, they all come crawlin, slap you on the back and say
Please.... Please.....

Felix · Post by **Felix** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 3:48 am

Diogenes wrote:Taken from redstate.org...

Impact of palin's speech from survey USA...
Survey USA Breakdown:

Surveying INDEPENDENT VOTERS, is Gov. Palin an asset or liability to the GOP ticket?
Asset? 09/03/08 = 43% 09/04/08 = 56%
Liability? 09/03/08 = 44% 09/04/08 = 27%
(Margin of error +/- 6)

Surveying MODERATE VOTERS, is Gov. Palin an asset or liability to the GOP ticket?
Asset? 09/03/08 = 38% 09/04/08 = 48%
Liability? 09/03/08 = 49% 09/04/08 = 30%
(Margin of error +/-5)

Back to tardapalooza...

mvscal wrote: It's called a post convention bounce, you ignorant twat.

thanks for the assist mvs

Diogenes · Post by **Diogenes** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 3:53 am

30 points among independents. 29 among moderates.

Not a bad bounce.

Diogenes · Post by **Diogenes** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 3:57 am

If you're concerned about Sarah Palin's lack of experience, Politico's Alexander Burns has some numbers that ought to put your mind at ease:

For a man who has lived 72 years and 67 days (McCain's age on Election Day this year), there is between a 14.2 and 15.1 percent chance of dying before Inauguration Day 2013, according to the Social Security Administration's 2004 actuarial tables and the authoritative 2001 mortality statistics assembled by the National Association of Insurance Commissioners.

Going by the Social Security Administration's tables, that's nearly te n times the likelihood that a man aged 47 years and 92 days (Barack Obama's age on Election Day this year) will die before Jan. 20, 2013.

Let's take the average of the two figures and say that McCain has a 14.65% likelihood of dying before Inauguration Day 2013, while Obama's likelihood is 1.465%.

For the sake of argument, assume further that Joe Biden and John McCain are equally qualified to be president, and Sarah Palin is as unqualified as Barack Obama.

That means that if McCain is elected, there is better than an 85% chance that America will have a qualified president at the end of the term. If Obama is elected, the likelihood of having an unqualified president at term's end is higher than 98.5%.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1220541 ... inion_main

Felix · Post by **Felix** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 4:01 am

Diogenes wrote:30 points among independents. 29 among moderates.
Not a bad bounce.

you're right not bad at all

I'm curious to see how long it holds

Diogenes · Post by **Diogenes** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 4:07 am

I'm more curious to see if this thing hits 30 pages by Tomorrow night.

LTS TRN 2 · Post by **LTS TRN 2** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 4:10 am

Yo, babs/Dio/cuda--ASSHOLE--,

McBush is a NUTJOB! His speech was scary in its Orwellian inversion gibberish (the ultimate inside corporate whore suggesting that he represents "Change")...but look closely at the nasty totalitarian reflex grin...this guy is dangerous.

Who knows what the DESERVED torture this war criminal received at the hands of his captors has rendered his remaining synapses...he seems barely conscious beyond the COMPLETELY prepared simplistic rhetoric his handlers have given him to recite.

I'm disgusted..and so should be your actual reaction.

WW

RadioFan · Post by **RadioFan** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 4:15 am

poptart wrote:The norm is that life begins at conception.

Really?

So a zygote has a soul?

Does that mean sperm and eggs have half a soul?

RadioFan · Post by **RadioFan** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 4:16 am

Diogenes wrote:I'm more curious to see if this thing hits 30 pages by Tomorrow night.

It will, bro, without even trying.

Diogenes · Post by **Diogenes** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 4:18 am

LTS TRN 2 wrote:

Relax, Nicky.

The voices aren't real. Honest.

Diogenes · Post by **Diogenes** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 4:20 am

RadioFan wrote:
poptart wrote:The norm is that life begins at conception.
Really?

So a zygote has a soul?

Does that mean sperm and eggs have half a soul?

If meat is murder, are eggs rape?

-P.J. O'Rourke.

RadioFan · Post by **RadioFan** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 4:47 am

Diogenes wrote:If meat is murder, are eggs rape?

-P.J. O'Rourke.

Depends.

Sin,

Smiths-loving, we-hate-everything-about-men feminist vegetarians.

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 5:31 am

RadioFan wrote:
poptart wrote:The norm is that life begins at conception.
Really?

So a zygote has a soul?

Does that mean sperm and eggs have half a soul?

A soul?

I've not once entered faith into this discussion and yet here we have one from the pro-choice crowd seeking to define life based upon when a ... soul ... might be present.

A zygote is living.
A zygote is destined, certainly so, to go on to become a living, breathing human being just like you.

What is the scenario, other than the two extremes Jay suggested, by which the killing of a growing child ought to overstep the reality that a human life has begun wthin a woman?

Since you're arguing so vigorously, you must have something?

Diogenes · Post by **Diogenes** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 5:36 am

Well I don't know why I came here tonight
I got the feeling that something ain't right
I'm so scared in case I fall off my chair
And I'm wondering how I'll get down the stairs
Clowns to the left of me
Jokers to the right, here I am
Stuck in the middle with you

RadioFan · Post by **RadioFan** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 5:48 am

poptart wrote:I've not once entered faith into this discussion and yet here we have one from the pro-choice crowd ...

You still don't fucking get it, do you?

Goddamn, you're dense.

poptart wrote:Since you're arguing so vigorously, you must have something?

Something about what? Whether or not I'd choose to answer a bullshit y/n horseshit question on a message board, or provoke thought?

Btw, if it makes you feel any better, my answer to the horseshit question, obviously, would be .... hold on ... wait for it ...

And with baited breath and while praying for it ...

I'd prefer to grow up in poverty, as long as my mom didn't have to die in the process.

Better?

RadioFan · Post by **RadioFan** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 6:00 am

Btw, at the risk of calling you an idiot, pop, I happen to AGREE with your arguments, if you'd bother to not skim over my initial sentences.

Entrenched?

Nah, there wouldn't be any of that involved in the abortion debate.

None whatsoever.

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 6:30 am

RF wrote:Btw, at the risk of calling you an idiot, pop, I happen to AGREE with your arguments

You agree with my arguments?

Do you?

You believe Roe v. Wade should be overturned?

RadioFan · Post by **RadioFan** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 7:06 am

poptart wrote:
RF wrote:Btw, at the risk of calling you an idiot, pop, I happen to AGREE with your arguments
You agree with my arguments?

Do you?

Some of them, yes.

Others ... absolutely not.

poptart wrote:You believe Roe v. Wade should be overturned?

No. See above.

Seriously, have you ever, in your life, taken a science class? Do you even have a concept of what science is? Or are you too busy kneeling at the alter to actually experience something, outside of the Bible?

Being able to understand someone else's point of view, might be a start.

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 8:28 am

You know, understanding one's point of view is lot easier when they ... actually have the stones and say what their point of view ... is. lol

All of this dancing around from you to finally reach the point where you need to come clean and admit that you are in fact, pro-choice.

If I'm a scientific moron, then educate me.

When does life begin, if not at conception?

And on what do you base that belief?

Y2K · Post by **Y2K** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 8:51 am

If she wins, can I volunteeer to be her Intern?

With all the brilliant motherfuckers around these parts someone should be able to hook me up with proper link....

Who gives a fuck if she can drop a moose, my bet is she probably smokes a great cigar.

Shlomart Ben Yisrael · Fri Sep 05, 2008 9:23 am

Diogenes · Post by **Diogenes** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 9:36 am

Someones got it in for me, theyre planting stories in the press
Whoever it is I wish theyd cut it out but when they will I can only guess.
They say I shot a man named gray and took his wife to italy,
She inherited a million bucks and when she died it came to me.
I cant help it if Im lucky.

Terry in Crapchester · Fri Sep 05, 2008 10:15 am

Martyred wrote:
Diogenes wrote:It's official....

What's official? That I want to blast my mayo into her grill?

Well, duh...

In my case, there'd have to be a "no talking" rule. Not only because of what she says (although that's certainly a big part of it), but also because of the tone in which she says it.

NAILS. ON. A. CHALKBOARD.

First Hillary, now Sarah Palin? Good God Almighty! I'm not saying that a phone sex operator ought to run for President or Vice-President, but somewhere in this great land of ours, there must be a woman holding elected office who doesn't sound like Denny Hastert's illegitimate daughter.

Diogenes · Post by **Diogenes** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 1:16 pm

Terry in Crapchester wrote:
Martyred wrote:
Diogenes wrote:It's official....

What's official? That I want to blast my mayo into her grill?

Well, duh...
In my case, there'd have to be a "no talking" rule. Not only because of what she says...

Methinks the lefty doth protest overmuch. Her common sense and powers of persuasion would make your tiny mind implode.

Cuda · Post by **Cuda** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 1:22 pm

Terry in Crapchester wrote:NAILS. ON. A. CHALKBOARD.

your reaction is more ike

HOLY WATER.
ON.
A.
DEMON

BSmack · Post by **BSmack** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 1:27 pm

Terry in Crapchester wrote:In my case, there'd have to be a "no talking" rule. Not only because of what she says...

I dated a girl back in college who was and still is Sara Palin's ideological twin sister. And might I add, was just as good looking as Palin. Makeup sex after arguing about the role of works vs grace in salvation may sound odd, but trust me, it is just as hot as any other kind of makeup sex.

Jay in Phoenix · Post by **Jay in Phoenix** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 4:01 pm

poptart wrote:Jay, you've put forth two situations which are NOT present in probably well over 95% of abortion cases.
You've tried to muddy the issue by going off into these extreme cases.
It's a bullshit tactic designed to divert from the fact that 'pro-choice' dipshits have NO rational counter for the reality that life begins at conception.

pops, I have not at all tried to muddy the issue. You should be able to tell from the tone of my replies to Wags and Tom where I was going. So I'll be clearer for you. The scenarios I've put forth are indeed the rarity. Yet, they do occur. And that's where the issue of abortion isn't cut and dried. That's where the matter isn't closed for discussion. It's not a bullshit tactic meant to divert anything. I do not represnt the fringe on either side of this issue.

You seem to however, and that is very, very sad.

I'm all about free thought and free will. I'm not about arbitrary death. I don't support the "choice" of abortion unless all other reasonable and humane considerations have been realistically eliminated.

I've said it before poptart, and I'll say it again...there are exceptions to almost every rule, be it on a legal or ethical or moral ground.

The matter of where life actually begins, and I mean concious human life, is a different discussion.

Jay

BSmack · Post by **BSmack** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 4:43 pm

War Wagon wrote:
BSmack wrote:
War Wagon wrote:Where's LabRat?
He's alive and well. He took on a new teaching gig and doesn't have time for posting anymore. It's our loss and his new school district's gain.
Pity.

Here's to hoping he still has time for a few Johnny Walker Reds now and then.

He gets out now and then. I've been meaning to get down to his neck of the woods someday, but it's amazing how much busier life gets with an infant in the house. Maybe during Christmas break I'll finally get a chance to knock back a few Labbats with him.

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 7:10 pm

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 7:12 pm

I just got this awesome visual of an overbearing, angry black woman standing outside of the RNC, screaming "Does your wife know you vote republican?" at all of the men walking towards the door.

RJ · Post by RJ » Fri Sep 05, 2008 7:22 pm

mvscal wrote:
Terry in Crapchester wrote:In my case, there'd have to be a "no talking" rule.
I laughed. Your n...igger wife would gorilla slap the teeth out of your head before you could finish the sentence.

You are a nutless, whimpering bag of suck. You don't make rules. You shut the fuck up and take out the trash or you get the shit beaten out of you.

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 10:10 pm

Jay wrote: I do not represnt the fringe on either side of this issue.

You seem to however, and that is very, very sad.

Pro-life is a fringe position?

Oh ...

lol

Jay, let's look at your two scenarios.

1. A terrible crime has been committed.
A woman has been victimized.
By forcing her to carry the child she is being further victimized.
It was not her CHOICE to have the child.

So, it is perhaps a case in which a difficult choice might be made to kill the growing child.
Not good, but there is NO good choice in this situation, and again, the woman is a crime victim who did not CHOOSE the child.

2. A woman might die.

There is no need to discuss this further.
You have to make a difficult choice here, and perhaps the choice is to kill the growing child and save the mother's life.

You tossed these two extreme scenarios out and HAVE tried to muddy the waters, proceeding to then call my pro-life position ... fringe.
There is nothing fringe about it.

So I ask you, aside from these two situations, what scenario(s) exist in which it is rightful to kill a growing child??