All Star Ballot Shocker..

Jack · Post by **Jack** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 2:49 am

As of June 25, 2006

1. Carlos Beltran, Mets 1,129,865
2. Alfonso Soriano, Nationals 1,084,936
3. Jason Bay, Pirates 1,069,986
4. Ken Griffey Jr., Reds 1,032,102
5. Andruw Jones, Braves 1,017,023
6. Jim Edmonds, Cardinals 702,240
7. Bobby Abreu, Phillies 642,873
8. Carlos Lee, Brewers 515,423
9. Barry Bonds, Giants 504,870
10. Aaron Rowand, Phillies 498,665
11. Adam Dunn, Reds 380,536
12. Cliff Floyd, Mets 355,533
13. Xavier Nady, Mets 352,094
14. Willy Taveras, Astros 324,219
15. Pat Burrell, Phillies 311,110

*************************************

Imagine, the Single Season Home Run Champion who is 2nd All Time on the Home Run List... A guy who past Babe Ruth's Home Run Record this year. A man considered by many to be one of the best players in the history of the game. A man who earns the fourth highest salary in Baseball..... A man who may be in his last season as a MLB player..

Very Possibly will not get voted by the fans to play in the All Star Game!!

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 4:11 am

I really don't see anything so earth shattering about that.
Check his stats for this season.
Isn't that what the All-Star game is supposed to be about?
Putting the best players from each league on the field?

Feel free to keep hayting, though.

fix · Post by **fix** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 4:14 am

What's shocking is that the best hitter in the game today, Albert Pujols's name isn't even listed on there..

Kansas City Kid · Post by **Kansas City Kid** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 5:11 am

Pujols isn't an outfielder. :wink:

Check the votes for 1st base.....he has the most overall votes........

Jack · Post by **Jack** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 8:20 am

Mikey wrote:I really don't see anything so earth shattering about that.
Check his stats for this season.
Isn't that what the All-Star game is supposed to be about?
Putting the best players from each league on the field?

Feel free to keep hayting, though.

Mikey, since fans have been voting for this thing it has never been purely based on current stats. Especiially for the ELITE players..
Check out Ken Griffey Jr.'s name and where he is on the balloting....Why is his name there??

Check out Cal Ripken's final appearance and what his stats were, or if you are old enough to remember Willie Mays (Barry's Godfather.. He hit .211 with 6 HRs in his final year as an All Star (and that was for the entire season)

Fans tend to want to see the "Greatest Players" , the "Shoe in" Hall of Famers, no matter how their current seasons are going....

Barry will be considered by many to be among the Greatest Players of ALL TIME. He has his name AHEAD of Babe "Freaking" Ruth in Single Season and Career Home Runs but still he doesn't get the LOVE!!

to which, I am shocked and amused!!

Laxplayer · Post by **Laxplayer** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 12:40 pm

because he's an asshole. that's why jack. Maybe the fans are sick and tired of his piss poor act.

Bizzarofelice · Post by **Bizzarofelice** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 1:06 pm

Is Beltran having that good of a year, or is he still riding the '04 playoffs?

Cicero · Post by **Cicero** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 1:38 pm

I'm not surprised. Bonds isnt having a great season. Hell he isnt even having a good season. He doesnt deserve to be there. Soriano and Bay are having really good seasons and deserve to start in the All-Star game. Also, they play for shit teams, so it wont force Garner to have to pick any additional people from their teams to make up the roster.

Shoalzie · Post by **Shoalzie** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 4:31 pm

I love the voting in the NL...very true to how it probably should be. In the AL however, (Red)SoxNation and YankeeFan is stuffing the ballot box to get their guys in as the starters.

Here's my last ballot I sent in...
American League
1B: Thome (write-in)
2B: Iguchi
3B: Rodriguez
SS: Tejada
C: Mauer
OF: Ordonez, Ramirez, Wells

National League
1B: Pujols
2B: Utley
3B: Wright
SS: Reyes
C: Estrada
OF: Bay, Beltran, Lee

jiminphilly · Post by **jiminphilly** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 5:31 pm

Bizzarofelice wrote:Is Beltran having that good of a year, or is he still riding the '04 playoffs?

.285, 20 hrs, 59 rbi, 56 runs scored.

A. Jones

.285, 18 hrs, 64 rbi, 46 runs scored

Close call but with Beltran playing in NY for a winning team I can see why he gets the nod. If you could statisticaly validate Jones' defense (runs prevented etc..) he should be the starter.

Shoalzie · Post by **Shoalzie** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 6:04 pm

jiminphilly wrote:
Bizzarofelice wrote:Is Beltran having that good of a year, or is he still riding the '04 playoffs?
.285, 20 hrs, 59 rbi, 56 runs scored.

A. Jones

.285, 18 hrs, 64 rbi, 46 runs scored

Close call but with Beltran playing in NY for a winning team I can see why he gets the nod. If you could statisticaly validate Jones' defense (runs prevented etc..) he should be the starter.

Take it from me, arguing in favor of Andruw Jones on this board doesn't end well for you.

Dog · Post by **Dog** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 9:09 pm

Laxplayer wrote:because he's an asshole. that's why jack. Maybe the fans are sick and tired of his piss poor act.

That's why I've never voted for him. Even before the steroid controversy, the guy was still a jerkoff.

Jack · Post by **Jack** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 11:26 pm

Laxplayer wrote:because he's an asshole. that's why jack. Maybe the fans are sick and tired of his piss poor act.

Jim Rome has said that Griffey is a jerk... I don't know.. never met him.

But he still gets the LOVE!!

rozy · Post by **rozy** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 11:47 pm

Shoalzie wrote:
jiminphilly wrote:
Bizzarofelice wrote:Is Beltran having that good of a year, or is he still riding the '04 playoffs?
.285, 20 hrs, 59 rbi, 56 runs scored.

A. Jones

.285, 18 hrs, 64 rbi, 46 runs scored

Close call but with Beltran playing in NY for a winning team I can see why he gets the nod. If you could statisticaly validate Jones' defense (runs prevented etc..) he should be the starter.

Take it from me, arguing in favor of Andruw Jones on this board doesn't end well for you.

RACK that. Your OF ballot in the NL is nails. That's the 3 I voted for. No knock against Sorelyanal but Bay, Lee, and Beltran should be the 3. As long as Andruw don't start and Bay does, I am good to go.

Besides, Jones will always and I mean always be Edmonds' Bitch in Center Field.

Laxplayer · Post by **Laxplayer** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 4:35 am

Jim Rome has said that Griffey is a jerk... I don't know.. never met him.

But he still gets the LOVE!!

Since when do you ever listen to anything Rome says. Rome's the one that's the arrogant jerk.

jiminphilly · Post by **jiminphilly** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 1:48 pm

rozy wrote: Besides, Jones will always and I mean always be Edmonds' Bitch in Center Field.

Bullshit. The only reason Jim Edmonds makes those sportscenter-like catches to begin with is because he gets such a late jump on the ball. Don't hate Jones because he can read the ball off the bat better than any centerfielder in baseball.

Bizzarofelice · Post by **Bizzarofelice** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 1:59 pm

jiminphilly wrote:Bullshit. The only reason Jim Edmonds makes those sportscenter-like catches to begin with is because he gets such a late jump on the ball. Don't hate Jones because he can read the ball off the bat better than any centerfielder in baseball.

Thought you had something when you opened your mouth, eh?

What Edmonds does that is different is playing shallower. Andruw Jones play deep and singles score runners from second. Blop hits drop and runners are on base. Edmonds figures that there aren't many deep flies to center he can't get under in time, so he plays shallow.

jiminphilly · Post by **jiminphilly** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 3:08 pm

Bizzarofelice wrote:
jiminphilly wrote:Bullshit. The only reason Jim Edmonds makes those sportscenter-like catches to begin with is because he gets such a late jump on the ball. Don't hate Jones because he can read the ball off the bat better than any centerfielder in baseball.
Thought you had something when you opened your mouth, eh?

What Edmonds does that is different is playing shallower. Andruw Jones play deep and singles score runners from second. Blop hits drop and runners are on base. Edmonds figures that there aren't many deep flies to center he can't get under in time, so he plays shallow.

If Edmonds plays so deep why must he continue to make those warning- track dive's for routine fly outs? I've watched plenty of Phillies-Braves games to note that Jones doesn't play particulary deep nor does he play shallow. He has the speed and ball recognition to cover both areas rather well and there is no questioning his arm strength. You mentioned balls dropping for singles in front of Jones and from what I've watched, Jones's strength is actually coming in on hard sinking liners and he's not leaving his feet to catch them.

Turn off the highlight real in your head and realize Jones is better because he makes the plays other outfielders struggle with look very easy. Edmonds, as much as I like the guy, is a total ham in the field.

Bizzarofelice · Post by **Bizzarofelice** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 3:30 pm

he plays shallow.

remember this? Its me saying Edmonds doesn't play deep.

I didn't say Edmonds was the best. I didn't say anything close. Just like your "highlight real" comment, you are projecting.

Baseball prospectus analysis of CF defense last year:

MLB Center Fielders, 2005

Player LG GM-CF FRAR FRAA
Jim Edmonds NL 138 42 20
Willy Taveras NL 147 40 16
Vernon Wells AL 154 39 10
Aaron Rowand AL 156 38 9
Luis Matos AL 119 29 8
Carlos Beltran NL 149 32 7
Brady Clark NL 144 31 6
Andruw Jones NL 158 31 4
Nook Logan AL 122 26 7
Torii Hunter AL 93 20 2

Based on Clay Davenport's numbers, Rowand has a legitimate case to be the AL winner, but Jones has no such argument in the NL. Edmonds and Taveras are head and shoulders above the competition, while Carlos Beltran and Brady Clark are both marginally better.

jiminphilly · Post by **jiminphilly** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 3:45 pm

Bizzarofelice wrote:
he plays shallow.
remember this? Its me saying Edmonds doesn't play deep.

I didn't say Edmonds was the best. I didn't say anything close. Just like your "highlight real" comment, you are projecting.

Baseball prospectus analysis of CF defense last year:

MLB Center Fielders, 2005

Player LG GM-CF FRAR FRAA
Jim Edmonds NL 138 42 20
Willy Taveras NL 147 40 16
Vernon Wells AL 154 39 10
Aaron Rowand AL 156 38 9
Luis Matos AL 119 29 8
Carlos Beltran NL 149 32 7
Brady Clark NL 144 31 6
Andruw Jones NL 158 31 4
Nook Logan AL 122 26 7
Torii Hunter AL 93 20 2

Based on Clay Davenport's numbers, Rowand has a legitimate case to be the AL winner, but Jones has no such argument in the NL. Edmonds and Taveras are head and shoulders above the competition, while Carlos Beltran and Brady Clark are both marginally better.

Do you care to provide a link to that site where you got this so I can actually read what those numbers mean or am I supposed to cower because you found some Bill James type hack who counts foot steps taken by outfielder in projecting how much ground they cover?

Edmonds has his reputation around MLB and it has nothing to do with him being a great CF.. Andruw Jones has won 7 straight gold gloves and most were before he became a better hitter which means it wasn't given based on his offensive numbers too like some OF I know ('sup Abreu) Edmonds has won his fair share too and to an extent, they are deserved but in terms of being technically sound, Jones tracks the ball better off the plate, takes better angles and doesn't have to end up diving for balls that guys like Edmonds does because they either were out of position or got a late jump.

Bizzarofelice · Post by **Bizzarofelice** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 4:18 pm

Bizzarofelice wrote: Baseball prospectus analysis of CF defense last year:

remember this? Its me saying where the info came from.

in terms of being technically sound

the guy who averages one dropped catch a year because he weakly raises one arm and half-ass's it is YOUR guy.

Your whole thing is a general notion that Edmonds can't read the ball off the bat, takes giant arcing paths to the ball and Jones is technically sound. Your perception.

jiminphilly · Post by **jiminphilly** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 5:01 pm

I'll ask again. Link?

Dog · Post by **Dog** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 5:24 pm

My centerfielder can beat up your centerfielder! :P

Cicero · Post by **Cicero** » Wed Jun 28, 2006 2:08 pm

Nigga please

Sin,

BBMarley · Post by **BBMarley** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 11:21 pm

Shoalzie wrote: American League
1B: Thome (write-in)

Isn't he just a DH this year? I know he is listed at first- but I thought he was mainly a DH

Shoalzie · Post by **Shoalzie** » Wed Jul 05, 2006 5:32 pm

BBMarley wrote:
Shoalzie wrote: American League
1B: Thome (write-in)
Isn't he just a DH this year? I know he is listed at first- but I thought he was mainly a DH

Ortiz was on the ballot for 1B and was voted to start...why couldn't Thome be on the ballot? I think have to have one guy per team and they've already got Konerko there. At least he got onto the team anyways.

indyfrisco · Post by **indyfrisco** » Wed Jul 05, 2006 6:58 pm

Personally, I think you shuld have to have played in at least a certain percentage of your team's games during the year to qualify for a certain position. When the game is at a NL ballpark, like this year, DH's are just SOL. Put your glove on every now and then or you don't get to play.

Shoalzie · Post by **Shoalzie** » Wed Jul 05, 2006 10:05 pm

IndyFrisco wrote:Personally, I think you shuld have to have played in at least a certain percentage of your team's games during the year to qualify for a certain position. When the game is at a NL ballpark, like this year, DH's are just SOL. Put your glove on every now and then or you don't get to play.

That's a great point. Hafner can be lumped into this as well. The AL has a great collection of hitters who are exclusively DH...they have no right being listed on a ballot at a regular position. If you're a DH...I don't care if your name is David Ortiz...you have to be put on the team as a reserve and he can be used as a pinch hitter when the game is at an NL park.

indyfrisco · Post by **indyfrisco** » Thu Jul 06, 2006 3:58 pm

Another reason I hate the DH. DH "position" is becoming a "hitting only" position. These guys are starting to look like linebackers. Coach just basically says, "No, no running for you. Just sit there and lift weights all day so you can hit home runs at night."

JCT · Post by **JCT** » Thu Jul 06, 2006 4:54 pm

What? Ortiz has played 7 games at 1B this year while Thome has only played 3. Obviously the better 1B man is starting. :roll: