Reggie Bush is the best player in college football!

DiT · Post by **DiT** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 5:42 pm

agree or disagree?

GreginPG · Post by **GreginPG** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 5:46 pm

Well hell, I'm certainly not gonna disagree with you!

PSUFAN · Post by **PSUFAN** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 5:48 pm

He's an incredible player. He gets my vote.

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 5:49 pm

Reggie who?

(He badly underthrew that pass yesterday)

Van · Post by **Van** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 5:59 pm

Just like with Matt Leinart, Jason White, Danny Wuerffel and many another college QB, it's kinda funny how Heismans keep getting awarded to players who aren't even the best players on their own team.

rozy · Post by **rozy** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 6:27 pm

Bush will look GREAT in a Texan uniform next year.

Atomic Punk · Post by **Atomic Punk** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 8:00 pm

rozy wrote:Bush will look GREAT in a Texan uniform next year.

Reggie and David Carr will share time on their backs due to that shit offensive line.

:x

Laxplayer · Post by **Laxplayer** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 8:06 pm

Uh, duh..........Hell yes.

Nolesy · Post by **Nolesy** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 8:13 pm

He should be arrested. His skills are illegal.

MiketheangrydrunkenCUfan · Sun Oct 16, 2005 8:35 pm

Vince Young is better. I wouldn't have said that going into the season, but he's pretty much silenced all his critics.

Vito Corleone · Post by **Vito Corleone** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 8:35 pm

He is one of the top 2 or 3, but I'm not convinced he is the best. Its hard to judge him when every defense his team faces is more focused on stopping Leinart and the USC passing game.

The same thing happened last year with Adrian Peterson, teams were so worried about stopping Jason White that they let Peterson run all over them.

Atomic Punk · Post by **Atomic Punk** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 8:40 pm

Vito Corleone wrote:He is one of the top 2 or 3, but I'm not convinced he is the best. Its hard to judge him when every defense his team faces is more focused on stopping Leinart and the USC passing game.

The same thing happened last year with Adrian Peterson, teams were so worried about stopping Jason White that they let Peterson run all over them.

How do you figure? Any coach except Dom Capers can clearly see the films and statistics to bring out the fact that West Coast football teams mostly run a balanced pro type offense. Why would a coach expect to keep a job if you overlook that?

This isn't Spurrierville where you have one dimensional schemes to beat slower defenses... at Florida.

Van · Post by **Van** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 8:47 pm

Beyond that, Bush is obviously a unique talent. His explosiveness goes beyond game planning.

He's a budding Barry Sanders, with more speed.

Vince Young? He sure as hell hasn't silenced all the critics. He's still seen by many as a prototypically one dimensional, run first-throw (poorly) second Big XII QB who'll never even get a sniff of NFL stardom as a QB.

Mr T · Post by **Mr T** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 10:13 pm

I agree.

Dude is sick.

First TD yesterday when he hurdled the ND player was awesome.

Rack Mikey! Bush does need to work on the arm.

MiketheangrydrunkenCUfan · Mon Oct 17, 2005 12:59 am

Perception

Van wrote: Vince Young? He sure as hell hasn't silenced all the critics. He's still seen by many as a prototypically one dimensional, run first-throw (poorly) second Big XII QB who'll never even get a sniff of NFL stardom as a QB.

Reality

espn.com wrote: 93/138 passing (67.4%), 1357 yards, 12 TDs, 5 INTs
75 carries for 413 yards, 5 TDs, 0 fumbles

Next...

rozy · Post by **rozy** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 1:01 am

Van wrote:
Vince Young? He sure as hell hasn't silenced all the critics. He's still seen by many as a prototypically one dimensional, run first-throw (poorly) second Big XII QB who'll never even get a sniff of NFL stardom as a QB.

Yes, he has. Anyone still critical of him at this point needs to change the TV to HGTV on saturdays since COLLEGE football obviously escapes that person's mental capacities. His job, RIGHT NOW, is college football. Not Pro Football. In COLLEGE, he is everything and more that he is billed as.

But Bush is the best in college right now. And did I mention how great he is going to look in a Texans uni? :D

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 1:19 am

Bush is a junior this year. Assuming he decides to enter the draft, what position will he play?

At 6'0" and 200 lb, is he big enough to be an NFL running back?
He's bulked up since last year, but I'd say he needs to put on another 20 lb or so to make it as a RB. Look at LT. He's, I think, 5'11" and about 221.

He's a great receiver too, but the prototypical WR these days is more like 6'3" or 6'4".

BTW, he went to the same HS, Helix, that produced Bill Walton. We beat them in the second game of the season this year.

PSUFAN · Post by **PSUFAN** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 1:23 am

He's big enough, IMO.

DiT · Post by **DiT** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 1:51 am

Mikey wrote:Bush is a junior this year. Assuming he decides to enter the draft, what position will he play?

At 6'0" and 200 lb, is he big enough to be an NFL running back?
He's bulked up since last year, but I'd say he needs to put on another 20 lb or so to make it as a RB. Look at LT. He's, I think, 5'11" and about 221.

He's a great receiver too, but the prototypical WR these days is more like 6'3" or 6'4".

BTW, he went to the same HS, Helix, that produced Bill Walton. We beat them in the second game of the season this year.

to limit him to one position would limit a teams ability to score touchdowns.
it'd be foolish to not play him at multiple positions.

PrimeX · Post by **PrimeX** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 1:59 am

Mikey wrote:Bush is a junior this year. Assuming he decides to enter the draft, what position will he play?

At 6'0" and 200 lb, is he big enough to be an NFL running back?

D. Davis with the Texans is 5'9" 216 lbs.

Warrick Dunn is 5'9" 180 lbs.

No doubt Reggie is more than capable of owning the NFL.

Vito Corleone · Post by **Vito Corleone** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 3:03 am

MiketheangrydrunkenCUfan wrote:Perception
Van wrote: Vince Young? He sure as hell hasn't silenced all the critics. He's still seen by many as a prototypically one dimensional, run first-throw (poorly) second Big XII QB who'll never even get a sniff of NFL stardom as a QB.
Reality
espn.com wrote: 93/138 passing (67.4%), 1357 yards, 12 TDs, 5 INTs
75 carries for 413 yards, 5 TDs, 0 fumbles
Next...

Even more reality for Van the tard

Vince Young is 4th in passing Efficiency, Heisman winner is 8th.

http://web1.ncaa.org/d1mfb/natlRank.jsp ... f&site=org

SoCalTrjn · Post by **SoCalTrjn** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 3:42 am

Maybe the fact that the Texans are so bad and have such an early pick will convince reggie to stay in college another yar

Vito Corleone · Post by **Vito Corleone** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 4:21 am

I have not watched an NFL game since the Oilers left Houston. Even when I try to watch some of my favorite players like Roy Williams I watch a few minutes of the game and lose interest.

With that said, I hear that the Texas suck so bad that no one player will make a difference. My guess is they will probably trade down and pick up a ton of lower picks.

The Seer · Post by **The Seer** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 5:09 am

Reggie Bush is a mediocre running back aided by the no-defense Pac-10 that inflates his rushing numbers....

Sincerely,

Trix are for kids!

Van · Post by **Van** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 5:46 am

Vito Corleone wrote:
MiketheangrydrunkenCUfan wrote:Perception
Van wrote: Vince Young? He sure as hell hasn't silenced all the critics. He's still seen by many as a prototypically one dimensional, run first-throw (poorly) second Big XII QB who'll never even get a sniff of NFL stardom as a QB.
Reality
espn.com wrote: 93/138 passing (67.4%), 1357 yards, 12 TDs, 5 INTs
75 carries for 413 yards, 5 TDs, 0 fumbles
Next...
Even more reality for Van the tard

Vince Young is 4th in passing Efficiency, Heisman winner is 8th.

http://web1.ncaa.org/d1mfb/natlRank.jsp ... f&site=org

Reality??

Okay then, who would you rather entrust with your season, 4th and 9, and the pass has to be completed?

Leinart, or Young?

Young's first inclination would be to duck and tuck it in at the very first sign of trouble. One read and done.

Young's passing numbers are mostly irrelevant, considering the teams he's thrown against and the circumstances under which he's operated. You know as well as I do that Young isn't even in the same league as Leinart as a pure passer so quit while you're behind.

While you're at it, and since you seem to want to quote NFL scouts, go ahead and check when (or even if) Young gets drafted, compared to Leinart.

Trying to compare Vince Young to Matt Leinart, as a thrower...Goddamn but you're stupid.

MiketheangrydrunkenCUfan · Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:15 am

Van wrote: Okay then, who would you rather entrust with your season, 4th and 9, and the pass has to be completed?

Leinart, or Young?

Young's first inclination would be to duck and tuck it in at the very first sign of trouble. One read and done.

Young's passing numbers are mostly irrelevant, considering the teams he's thrown against and the circumstances under which he's operated. You know as well as I do that Young isn't even in the same league as Leinart as a pure passer so quit while you're behind.

While you're at it, and since you seem to want to quote NFL scouts, go ahead and check when (or even if) Young gets drafted, compared to Leinart.

Trying to compare Vince Young to Matt Leinart, as a thrower...Goddamn but you're stupid.

Who says the pass has to be completed on 4th & 9? If VY can pick up the first with his legs, how is that any worse than throwing for it? You act as if his scrambling ability is a bad thing.

You're so quick to dismiss Young's competition, but who has Leinart put up his comparable numbers against? Hawaii. Arkansas. A vastly overrated ASU team. Your myopia is comical.

If you want to compare the two as pure pocket passers, then Leinart gets the edge, but not to the degree that you assume. If you want to compare career stats, then Leinart wins that one by a significant margin.

But if you're asking who the better all-around QB is right now, the answer is clearly Vince Young.

Man, I don't even like Texas. I thought VY was overrated coming into this season too. But the guy has raised his game to the next level, and you're an idiot if you can't (or refuse to) acknowledge that.

Vito Corleone · Post by **Vito Corleone** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:18 am

Van wrote:
Vito Corleone wrote:
MiketheangrydrunkenCUfan wrote:Perception Reality Next...
Even more reality for Van the tard

Vince Young is 4th in passing Efficiency, Heisman winner is 8th.

http://web1.ncaa.org/d1mfb/natlRank.jsp ... f&site=org
Reality??

Okay then, who would you rather entrust with your season, 4th and 9, and the pass has to be completed?

Leinart, or Young?

Young's first inclination would be to duck and tuck it in at the very first sign of trouble. One read and done.

Young's passing numbers are mostly irrelevant, considering the teams he's thrown against and the circumstances under which he's operated. You know as well as I do that Young isn't even in the same league as Leinart as a pure passer so quit while you're behind.

While you're at it, and since you seem to want to quote NFL scouts, go ahead and check when (or even if) Young gets drafted, compared to Leinart.

Trying to compare Vince Young to Matt Leinart, as a thrower...Goddamn but you're stupid.

I'm stupid?

Your the one talking out of his ass about things you know nothing about.
Your first stupid statement is asking who I would rather have, a QB that can tuck it and run for a first, or a guy who can only stand in the pocket and hope that one of his receivers gets open. If you said Leinart you are a total dumbass, duel threat QB are much more valuable than a guy who can only rely on his arm.

Second you claim that Young looks at one receiver and then tucks it and runs. Fact is, he does a hell of a job going through his progressions. If you actually watched Vince would know that our TE David Thomas is almost never the primary receiver yet he catches a hell of a lot of balls.

And you are right Young is not as good a passer as Leinart. Leinart has the ability to make every pass imaginable. Vince as far as I know can't, but lets see Leinart face a 4th and 18 when the defense has dropped 8 guys and none of his receivers are open, what will Leinart do? Vince faced that and ran for a 21 yard gain, couple plays later he hits a receiver for the game winning touchdown. Leinart can do nothing if all his receivers are covered. Vince can.

BTW the same scout i have quoted has gone on record that if Vince was to come out this year he would be the 2nd QB taken behind Leinart. I know you might think that Leinart is a sure thing but in reality Vince is much more of a sure thing than Leinart is. If Leinart is a bust as a QB he is out of the league. If Vince does not make it as a QB he would be a hell of a receiver. Vince is 6'5 235. But don't take that statement to mean that I think Vince won't make it as a QB fact is he will be a bigger version of Michael Vick, he has a ugly throwing motion but he can still throw the ball.

Atomic Punk · Post by **Atomic Punk** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 8:07 am

Vito, you have the NBA individual attitude that queefs all over black sports. All of these guys are just fantasy stats.

Here is the truth.... There is no "I" in "team." This hip-hop culture has destroyed pro sports.

Cicero · Post by **Cicero** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 3:38 pm

Bush is going to win the Heisman. He is clearly the best player in the nation. I think Vince is having a sick year, but I think Bush might have won the Award w/ his perfomance on Saturday.

MiketheangrydrunkenCUfan · Mon Oct 17, 2005 3:43 pm

Atomic Punk wrote:Vito, you have the NBA individual attitude that queefs all over black sports. All of these guys are just fantasy stats.

Here is the truth.... There is no "I" in "team." This hip-hop culture has destroyed pro sports.

WTF does this have to do with the discussion at hand? If you want to race bait, go do it on Main Street, loser.

Vito Corleone · Post by **Vito Corleone** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 3:48 pm

Atomic Punk wrote:Vito, you have the NBA individual attitude that queefs all over black sports. All of these guys are just fantasy stats.

Here is the truth.... There is no "I" in "team." This hip-hop culture has destroyed pro sports.

Why? Because I Vince Young is the baddest man in college football? Or because Vince Young is black?

There may not be an "I" in team, but there is an EAT ME!

Van · Post by **Van** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 3:59 pm

Mike, Vito was tossing up Young's passing statistics as a means of arguing that Leinart's not a better passing QB.

Why else would he have posted those passing stats in response to my comments about Young as a passer, if not to bolster Young's credentials as a thrower?

Otherwise, running QB's are college QB's. In the NFL running QB's are either defensive backs or QB's soon to be on the disabled list.

Athleticism and running ability are all well and good at the QB position but the traits that matter most are poise, leadership, passing touch and the ability to stand in the pocket and use your field awareness to feel the rush and find some operating space in order to buy time to make the proper read and deliver the ball were it's needed.

Lastly comes arm strength and athleticism. Doesn't matter who the QB is, he doesn't really become a successful big game winning QB until he learns to stop ducking and running and start depending on his head and his arm and his footwork to find and complete passes to his receivers.

That's Leinart. That's not Vince Young.

Nolesy · Post by **Nolesy** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 4:01 pm

Reggie may not be in a class by himself but it sure does'nt take long to take attendence.

Terry in Crapchester · Mon Oct 17, 2005 4:34 pm

Van wrote:Beyond that, Bush is obviously a unique talent. His explosiveness goes beyond game planning.

He's a budding Barry Sanders, with more speed.

Actually, he's always reminded me of Rocket Ismail. Mind you, I'm talking about Rocket in college -- literally a threat to score from anywhere on the field, in any situation -- rather than in the NFL -- undersized for a WR, and never utilized properly.

One of the all-time disgraces in Heisman voting was when Ty Detmer won the award over Rocket in '90. If I had a Heisman vote (and I don't), it would go to Bush this year.

Atomic Punk · Post by **Atomic Punk** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 6:32 pm

Vito Corleone wrote:
Atomic Punk wrote:Vito, you have the NBA individual attitude that queefs all over black sports. All of these guys are just fantasy stats.

Here is the truth.... There is no "I" in "team." This hip-hop culture has destroyed pro sports.
Why? Because I Vince Young is the baddest man in college football? Or because Vince Young is black?

There may not be an "I" in team, but there is an EAT ME!

Vince Young is not the bestest back in sports and to AngryToolFan, this isn't race baiting either.

Van summed it up nicely as he usually does and I agree.

Vito, when you saw Reggie Bush playing perhaps the tied for #1 team in the country, did it not make sense to you that he's clearly an NFL player given to USC on loan, and the best player in the country?

Vito Corleone · Post by **Vito Corleone** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:28 pm

Vito Corleone wrote:
And you are right Young is not as good a passer as Leinart. Leinart has the ability to make every pass imaginable. Vince as far as I know can't, but lets see Leinart face a 4th and 18 when the defense has dropped 8 guys and none of his receivers are open, what will Leinart do? Vince faced that and ran for a 21 yard gain, couple plays later he hits a receiver for the game winning touchdown. Leinart can do nothing if all his receivers are covered. Vince can.

Van who has zero reading comprehension said:

Mike, Vito was tossing up Young's passing statistics as a means of arguing that Leinart's not a better passing QB.

Why else would he have posted those passing stats in response to my comments about Young as a passer, if not to bolster Young's credentials as a thrower?

Maybe I posted his stats because of the nonsense you spew like this:

Young's first inclination would be to duck and tuck it in at the very first sign of trouble. One read and done.

Young's passing numbers are mostly irrelevant, considering the teams he's thrown against and the circumstances under which he's operated. You know as well as I do that Young isn't even in the same league as Leinart as a pure passer so quit while you're behind.

While you're at it, and since you seem to want to quote NFL scouts, go ahead and check when (or even if) Young gets drafted, compared to Leinart.

and this little nugget if stupid

Vince Young? He sure as hell hasn't silenced all the critics. He's still seen by many as a prototypically one dimensional, run first-throw (poorly) second Big XII QB who'll never even get a sniff of NFL stardom as a QB.

I have never said that Vince Young is a better passer than Leinart, infact I have said the opposite. What I did say is I would rather have a duel threat QB over a guy who might be a better passer but thats all he can do. You have no idea what you are talking about because Pac 10 has never played defense before.

Vince's numbers prove he is a very good passer, anyone with half a brain can see it. He is not John Elway and never will be, but you can look at the guys who can run with the ball in the NFL, and he is better than most of those QBs. He is bigger, faster and stronger than Vick and now he is starting to throw the ball better than him as well.

I never said Reggie isn't NFL Quality back, I said I didn't think he was the best player in college football right now for legit reasons. I still think Adrian Peterson is the best runningback in college football but Reggie really isn't a running back he is more of an all-purpose back who does a little of everything. He reminds me of Marshall Faulk, but he is not a 30 carries per game back and would not be an every down back. Adrian is.

I am now of the opinion we need to open up the board bitch race and let Van_tard in.

Atomic Punk · Post by **Atomic Punk** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:47 pm

What legit reasons?

Marshall Faulk, for example, was a WAC player at San Diego State. The WAC sucks in defense but a few WAC teams can beat the big boys. Being an all-purpose back means what to you? That is just plain stupid saying that.

He's pretty good at the pro level so that kicks your argument to the curb.

Here is the thing, I never see West Coast football out on the East Coast unless it's on ESPN or NBC (Notre Dame Broadcasting Company).

Also, the NFL is locked down tight as I am in the Steinbrener run New York TV market. They black out all of the local games and will only show one game a week if the team is on the road. Thank G0d for ESPN's late night game or I would be as brain washed as many fucked up sports honks out here are.

Sirfindafold · Post by **Sirfindafold** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 8:01 pm

Don't know much about Young. Watched him play an outstanding game in last year's Rose Bowl.

Here's a question for his followers.

Being under the same circumstances Leinart was in Saturday, would Young be able to audible into the successful 4th and 9 play that Leinart executed. could he make the same throw (under those circumstances)?

Vito Corleone · Post by **Vito Corleone** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 8:17 pm

Sirfindafold wrote:Don't know much about Young. Watched him play an outstanding game in last year's Rose Bowl.

Here's a question for his followers.

Being under the same circumstances Leinart was in Saturday, would Young be able to audible into the successful 4th and 9 play that Leinart executed. could he make the same throw (under those circumstances)?

In the same situation Yes he would but more importantly he easily could have run for it, he did it last year against Kansas only it was a 4th and 18 and he ran for 21 yards. The real key is that when Leinart ran for the TD and was turned away and fumbled out of bounds, Vince would have scored. Vince at 6'5 230 has legit 4.4 speed and sick moves. There would have been no last second QB sneak.

Atomic Punk, I stated my reasons in my first post in this thread, try a little reading if you can.

DrDetroit · Post by **DrDetroit** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 8:22 pm

I'd go Vince Young over Reggie Bush. While Bush has sick moves and even sicker plays (hurdling that ND player), it's still a hit/miss proposition each time he touches the ball (read Barry Sanders in the NFL and not Barry at OSU). And his "position" with USC affords him that luxury, especially with the real deal at QB and a quality back in White.

Young, on the other hand, like Vito says, is a legitimate dual threat and I certainly don't think he's got a turtle mentality, that dude definitely runs through his progression before tucking it in (knowing that there are designed running plays for him). He's taking 5-step drops, sometimes seven, not the 3-step drops you see with most running QB's. He's improved as a thrower over last season and is carrying that team on his own.