Since this dump doesn’t have enough racially incendiary topics…

[smackaholic]

How about another?

Ben Shapiro is calling for Trump to pardon Derek Chauvin of whatever federal charges he was guilty of.

My first question is what are these charges? I know the state of Minnesota could him guilty if murder. TBOM has no power over that.

Ben does make a valid point. Floyd had a good bit of fentanyl in his system. This could have been a fatal dose. That being the case, there is some doubt in the murder charge.

During the trial, I was afraid that we’d end up with an acquittal and subsequent rioting because the prosecution was swinging for the fences rather than go with involuntary manslaughter.

I think some level of manslaughter was justified based on Chauvin’s failure to administer OD first aid on a dude who was obviously ODing.

Chauvin proved that day that he was a shitty cop. But I don’t think he intentionally killed Floyd.


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[Roux]

My first question is what are these charges?

But I don’t think he intentionally killed Floyd.

Specific intent may not been an element of the crime upon which he was convicted.

[smackaholic]

My first question is what are these charges?

But I don’t think he intentionally killed Floyd.

Specific intent may not been an element of the crime upon which he was convicted.

You obviously know more about the definition of various charges than I, but wasn’t he convicted of M1?

Or was it M2 or M#?

And does not M1 mean that he not only intended to murder, but that he planned it?

Assuming he is guilty of withholding first aid, what charge would that warrant? Maybe the argument could be made that a deliberate denial of aid could be murder.

I did not watch the trial, but from what I saw on the news, that was not the prosecution’s case.

They actually played down the OD because it took away from their case that he deliberately choked him to deaf.


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[88BuckeyeGrad]

My first question is what are these charges?

But I don’t think he intentionally killed Floyd.

Specific intent may not been an element of the crime upon which he was convicted.

According to Wikipedia (not always a reliable source, I know): "A 12-member jury found Chauvin guilty of unintentional second-degree murder, third-degree murder, and second-degree manslaughter."

Here is some more on the elements: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_in_Minnesota_law and https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/609.205

I don't think Trump can do jack shit about those convictions. There was a civil rights conviction in federal court. Chauvin pled guilty on that one, I think.

[smackaholic]

My first question is what are these charges?

But I don’t think he intentionally killed Floyd.

Specific intent may not been an element of the crime upon which he was convicted.

According to Wikipedia (not always a reliable source, I know): "A 12-member jury found Chauvin guilty of unintentional second-degree murder, third-degree murder, and second-degree manslaughter."

Here is some more on the elements: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_in_Minnesota_law and https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/609.205

I don't think Trump can do jack shit about those convictions. There was a civil rights conviction in federal court. Chauvin pled guilty on that one, I think.

88, what’s your take on the M2 conviction?

Wasn’t aware M2 could be unintentional.

Trump won’t touch this with a…..what was the length of the pole in “the Grinch” 39 1/2, I think, whatever it was, it could be twice that long and Trump won’t touch it. Nor should he.

This does need to go to appeal.

I was listening to Dershowitz talk about it and he brings up a few good points.

An argument could be made that the jury was scared into a guilty verdict. That race baiting old cunt from Cali, Maxine Waters said they’d better do it or else.

He also thought that this was the rare example where putting the suspect on the stand would be a good idea.

My guess is that when this is over with, some level of manslaughter sticks. By then it will likely result in him being released for time served.


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[Mikey]

OK here's a racially incendiary topic.

Trump wants to offer basically immediate citizenship to any white South African farmers who want to move to the US. Everybody else can fuck off.

Thoughts?

[Diego in Seattle]

I believe that the federal sentence is being served concurrently. Even if the federal civil rights conviction was to be overturned it wouldn't make much difference, if any.

Ben does make a valid point. Floyd had a good bit of fentanyl in his system. This could have been a fatal dose. That being the case, there is some doubt in the murder charge.

Tell you what, Slappy...why don't you & Ben have someone strangle you for 9 minutes & then get back to us as to whether or not it was the fentanyl in his system or asphyxiation.

Actually don't bother on the last part. The only person that you two will be getting back to is the coroner.

[Mikey]

I believe that the federal sentence is being served concurrently. Even if the federal civil rights conviction was to be overturned it wouldn't make much difference, if any.

Ben does make a valid point. Floyd had a good bit of fentanyl in his system. This could have been a fatal dose. That being the case, there is some doubt in the murder charge.

Tell you what, Slappy...why don't you & Ben have someone strangle you for 9 minutes & then get back to us as to whether or not it was the fentanyl in his system or asphyxiation.

Actually don't bother on the last part. The only person that you two will be getting back to is the coroner.

Don't forget, according to SmackFK Jr, everyone who died WITH Covid actually died FROM something else.
That's why overall mortality rates never actually rose during the pandemic.

[smackaholic]

I believe that the federal sentence is being served concurrently. Even if the federal civil rights conviction was to be overturned it wouldn't make much difference, if any.

Ben does make a valid point. Floyd had a good bit of fentanyl in his system. This could have been a fatal dose. That being the case, there is some doubt in the murder charge.

Tell you what, Slappy...why don't you & Ben have someone strangle you for 9 minutes & then get back to us as to whether or not it was the fentanyl in his system or asphyxiation.

Actually don't bother on the last part. The only person that you two will be getting back to is the coroner.

Have you ever received any restraint training?

I did, briefly when I was in the Navy.

The knee to the upper back was one of the techniques we were taught.

It is used because when one is flat on his stomach, it doesn’t take a hole lot of pressure to this area to keep you in place. It is NOT strangulation.

I am not saying what Chauvin did was proper. It wasn’t. He shouldn’t be a cop.

But that doesn’t make it murder, unless the failure to administer first aid is sufficient for the M2 charge.

Trouble is, that wasn’t the prosecution’s assertion. They claimed the act of applying pressure was the lethal act.

Remember how Floyd pleaded “I can’t breeve!!!!”

You know who says that?

Someone who can breeve. That’s who.

Were he being strangled as you say, he’d say jack shit.

And then there’s the little detail that a dude who was saying I can’t breeve, then actually can’t AND he’s got a possibly lethal dose of something that kills more people over the last decade than all of our wars combined.

Add to everything else that Derek. Chauvin, who knew he was being videotaped while this went on had to know if Floyd died, he’d be fukked.

I think DC was a shit cop.

I think he’s a shit human being. He should have recognized that Floyd was possibly ODing and blasted him with some narcam.

This doesn’t mean he’s guilty of murder.

The only winners here are the GF family members who fit a nice payday, while being rid of a shitty family member who, given his history, they prolly won’t miss much.

Wonder if they’ve pissed through all their winnings yet?


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[StrawMan]

Remember how Floyd pleaded “I can’t breeve!!!!”

You know who says that?

Someone who can breeve. That’s who.

"Cuz she unce, tice, fee tines a mady."

[Diego in Seattle]

Typical "throw spaghetti against the wall & see if anything sticks" tactic...

As a matter of fact (as one would expect) "restraint tactics"/weapon less defensive tactics was part of the Post-certified LE academy I went through & completed. When it comes to UOF what's done in the military can be quite different than what civilian LE does. When I received training the only restraint that we were trained on was the carotid artery restraint (aka "sleeper hold"). We were also told of where that restraint differs from the choke hold, how applying the CAR could devolve into a choke hold if we didn't/couldn't physically control the suspect, and that application of a choke hold was strictly forbidden. That was back in '85 (40 years...fuck I'm old!), and I believe that it was 5years or less later that all San Diego agencies banned the CAR.

And as far as the suspect being on their stomach I think that breathing while laying on their chest creates more difficulty in breathing, both while the knee is applied as well as after the suspect has been cuffed. Finally, do you think that civilian officers are as free to do what the military does on American streets?

[smackaholic]

Typical "throw spaghetti against the wall & see if anything sticks" tactic...

As a matter of fact (as one would expect) "restraint tactics"/weapon less defensive tactics was part of the Post-certified LE academy I went through & completed. When it comes to UOF what's done in the military can be quite different than what civilian LE does. When I received training the only restraint that we were trained on was the carotid artery restraint (aka "sleeper hold"). We were also told of where that restraint differs from the choke hold, how applying the CAR could devolve into a choke hold if we didn't/couldn't physically control the suspect, and that application of a choke hold was strictly forbidden. That was back in '85 (40 years...fuck I'm old!), and I believe that it was 5years or less later that all San Diego agencies banned the CAR.

And as far as the suspect being on their stomach I think that breathing while laying on their chest creates more difficulty in breathing, both while the knee is applied as well as after the suspect has been cuffed. Finally, do you think that civilian officers are as free to do what the military does on American streets?

The training I received was not for combat. Obviously that would be more aggressive. It was while TAD to the ship’s Master at Arms division. They are basically the ship’s rentacops.


So this training was standard issue training.

Now you seem to be
On board the he killed him because he was concentrating on restraint when he should have been in EMT mode.

In that we agree. Had he recognized that Floyd was ODing, he should have went to EMT mode and hit him with narcan.

So, what we know beyond a reasonable doubt is that Chauvin was a shitty cop and an even worse EMT.

But that doesn’t necessarily make him a murderer.


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[Diego in Seattle]

Typical "throw spaghetti against the wall & see if anything sticks" tactic...

As a matter of fact (as one would expect) "restraint tactics"/weapon less defensive tactics was part of the Post-certified LE academy I went through & completed. When it comes to UOF what's done in the military can be quite different than what civilian LE does. When I received training the only restraint that we were trained on was the carotid artery restraint (aka "sleeper hold"). We were also told of where that restraint differs from the choke hold, how applying the CAR could devolve into a choke hold if we didn't/couldn't physically control the suspect, and that application of a choke hold was strictly forbidden. That was back in '85 (40 years...fuck I'm old!), and I believe that it was 5years or less later that all San Diego agencies banned the CAR.

And as far as the suspect being on their stomach I think that breathing while laying on their chest creates more difficulty in breathing, both while the knee is applied as well as after the suspect has been cuffed. Finally, do you think that civilian officers are as free to do what the military does on American streets?

The training I received was not for combat. Obviously that would be more aggressive. It was while TAD to the ship’s Master at Arms division. They are basically the ship’s rentacops.


So this training was standard issue training.

Now you seem to be
On board the he killed him because he was concentrating on restraint when he should have been in EMT mode.

In that we agree. Had he recognized that Floyd was ODing, he should have went to EMT mode and hit him with narcan.

So, what we know beyond a reasonable doubt is that Chauvin was a shitty cop and an even worse EMT.

But that doesn’t necessarily make him a murderer.


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We agree for the most part on the medical part, but that's secondary to the reason why it should be murder (and is the part that you keep glossing over. So let me put it to you this way.

If you've ever taken a CPR class you know that person w/o oxygen starts to develop brain damage at 4 minutes. At 6 minutes death can occur.

How long did Chauvin have his knee on Floyd's neck?

Also, from my training...

We were instructed to never use flashlights to strike suspects. They could only be used if we had been specifically trained for using said flashlight as a straight baton (and we weren't. And even more importantly it was a tactic that not only wasn't trained, it was banned by every agency. So while Chauvin might have received training in the military to perform that restraint I doubt that he was never trained by his employer at that time nor authorized to use the tactic. And he knew that.

[88BuckeyeGrad]

88, what’s your take on the M2 conviction?

I really don’t have one. I watched the entire video of the event, from the initial encounter to the ambulance driving away. 99.9% of the time no one dies and it is another sad episode that happens too often in our streets. I don’t think Chauvin tried to kill Floyd. I don’t think any of the cops wanted that result. But he died, and a jury found Chauvin guilty. Who am I to assert I know better than they do?

I will say that putting the Asian cop (who was merely keeping the crowd on the sidewalk) in prison is a heinous prosecutorial overreach. He had his back to the unfolding events. He was just doing his job. That one is wrong, in my opinion. Watch all the videos. What else was he supposed to do other than what he did? I saw no crime there at all.

[88BuckeyeGrad]

OK here's a racially incendiary topic.

Trump wants to offer basically immediate citizenship to any white South African farmers who want to move to the US. Everybody else can fuck off.

Thoughts?

Fair. Would your take be different if the president was offering immediate citizenship to black South African farmers who were victims of Apartied?

[smackaholic]

The SA white farmers are suffering from what is basically payback for apartheid. Trouble is, said apartheid ended, voluntarily, I might add, many years ago.

You could argue they actually have a legitimate asylum case. The question is, who should take them?

We have plenty of farmers. I would look to Britain or maybe The Netherlands, or whatever one of the low countries it was they originally came from.

This whole episode is shitty. SA was a pretty damn prosperous place. Yes, whitey was definitely in charge even though he was a minority. The supporters of apartheid said it has to be that way. If we give the darkies full political rights, they will take over and run the whole damn country into the ditch.

The last 40 or so years make a pretty good case for apartheid, sadly. Also makes a pretty good case for "western" countries to see to it that they maintain a majority of the people who made the fukking place.

Yeah, I know, I just have a nasty case of white fragility.

[Diego in Seattle]

Trouble is, said apartheid ended, voluntarily, I might add, many years ago.

Voluntarily?

[smackaholic]

Trouble is, said apartheid ended, voluntarily, I might add, many years ago.

Voluntarily?

Yes. Not that there wasn't a great deal of pressure from the rest of the world. They really didn't have much of a choice.

In the end, they did agree to a peaceful end to apartheid.

And then what happened?

Please tell us how it is all whitey's fault that the fukking place has been turned into just another African third world, lawless shithole.

Sadly, there seems to be a bit of a pattern. I wish it wasn't so. I wish that all peoples were equally good at running functional societies, but it doesn't seem to be the case.

[Mikey]

OK here's a racially incendiary topic.

Trump wants to offer basically immediate citizenship to any white South African farmers who want to move to the US. Everybody else can fuck off.

Thoughts?

Fair. Would your take be different if the president was offering immediate citizenship to black South African farmers who were victims of Apartied?

I don’t believe I expressed an opinion in my post, but you apparently are assuming one. I’m honestly not sure one way or the other but I’m 99.9% sure that Dear Leader would not be making the same offer under the scenario that you have posited.

[88BuckeyeGrad]

OK here's a racially incendiary topic.

Trump wants to offer basically immediate citizenship to any white South African farmers who want to move to the US. Everybody else can fuck off.

Thoughts?

Fair. Would your take be different if the president was offering immediate citizenship to black South African farmers who were victims of Apartied?

I don’t believe I expressed an opinion in my post, but you apparently are assuming one. I’m honestly not sure one way or the other but I’m 99.9% sure that Dear Leader would not be making the same offer under the scenario that you have posited.

You have not clearly expressed an opinion on either question (your own or mine). I guess we're just left to speculate (like you did).

[smackaholic]

OK here's a racially incendiary topic.

Trump wants to offer basically immediate citizenship to any white South African farmers who want to move to the US. Everybody else can fuck off.

Thoughts?

Fair. Would your take be different if the president was offering immediate citizenship to black South African farmers who were victims of Apartied?

I don’t believe I expressed an opinion in my post, but you apparently are assuming one. I’m honestly not sure one way or the other but I’m 99.9% sure that Dear Leader would not be making the same offer under the scenario that you have posited.

If we’re gonna play hypothetical bullshit, let’s say we have a country ruled by a black minority for years. Whitey eventually rises up and starts persecuting the balck folks.

Would it be a just to allow these folks into our country using the asylum excuse?

Doesn’t matter what hypothetical leader you want to use.

In such a case, it could be justified.


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[Mikey]

Fair. Would your take be different if the president was offering immediate citizenship to black South African farmers who were victims of Apartied?

I don’t believe I expressed an opinion in my post, but you apparently are assuming one. I’m honestly not sure one way or the other but I’m 99.9% sure that Dear Leader would not be making the same offer under the scenario that you have posited.

You have not clearly expressed an opinion on either question (your own or mine). I guess we're just left to speculate (like you did).

I expressed an opinion about as strongly as you did. So there’s that.

[88BuckeyeGrad]

I expressed an opinion about as strongly as you did.

True. Here's mine. If we are going to open the pathway to citizenship to people who are being racially discriminated against, that policy should be color blind.

[Roux]

I disagree.

We have too many orange people now, definitely do not need any more.

[Mikey]

I expressed an opinion about as strongly as you did.

True. Here's mine. If we are going to open the pathway to citizenship to people who are being racially discriminated against, that policy should be color blind.

I’m fine with that, but with the caveat expressed so eloquently by Roux.

[88BuckeyeGrad]

Noted.

[mvscal]

OK here's a racially incendiary topic.

Trump wants to offer basically immediate citizenship to any white South African farmers who want to move to the US. Everybody else can fuck off.

Thoughts?

Thoughts? You're full of shit per usual.

[smackaholic]

I disagree.

We have too many orange people now, definitely do not need any more.

So, you’re not necessarily against helping people who have been persecuted, just so long as they’re on your side?

That’s mighty white of you.


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