Question for OU fans

[Killian]

I am going to preface this post by saying that I do not think Bob Stoops is leaving OU, especially to coach Notre Dame.

That having been said, ND fans have their panties in a bunch because Stoops issued the classic "non-denial, denial" when asked about his name being linked to the Notre Dame job. ND homer boards ran with this and practically came as they typed about how this would be the perfect time to get Stoops because of the talent leaving, his ties to Ohio, etc. and the fact that "the majority of OU fans want Stoops out".

Do they? All of you guys on here seem to be in the camp that this year sucked because of the injury to Bradford, Grisham, etc. but the OU will be just fine. Do the majority of OU boards want Stoops gone, or is it the fanatical fringe?

The great thing about homer boards are gems like "I'm not sure I would take Bob Stoops over Brian Kelly". Give me a fucking break. The reasons cited are that he is on a downward trajectory, he isn't getting any younger (but only a year older than Kelly, weird), and he may not be able to recruit nationally.

Do OU fans really feel this way? About any that I have mentioned above?

Just curious.

[Cornhusker]

I thought ND has an automatic national recruitng base in name alone, not to mention the catholic thing.

[King Crimson]

OU BBS fan still thinks Barry Switzer never lost a game. ever.

I'd be shocked if Stoops left Norman.

i know ND fan thrives on their *exceptionalism* but it's at best a lateral move. actually, i think OU is a much better job. to be honest.

[SunCoastSooner]

If your fans believe such things they’re delusional. Stoops has had a number of big time offers or rumored offers during his time in Norman such as the Kansas City Chiefs, Cleveland Browns, Denver Broncos, and the Florida Gators who certainly offered him the job not once but twice amongst others.

There are a minority of fans on the homer boards that have bitched about Bob but for they are a small minority and of that minority most of them don’t have a degree from OU, don’t donate money to the University academically or athletically, and are sitting on their couch each Saturday in their throwback Billy Sims jersey and jorts crying because it’s their only escape from the hourly wage they pull at the local Waffle House or Denny’s.

It’s also been a lot more than just Bradford and Gresham that went down this season as well, off the top of my head: Brody Eldridge(TE/OL), Brian Simmons (OL), Jarvis Jones (OL), Ryan Broyles (#1 WR) has missed time here and there with his shoulder, Matt Clapp (FB), Tavaris Jefferies’ family issues, DeMarco Murray on and off with his ankle, Caleb (WR), Mike Balogun (LB)being declared ineligible for a game he didn’t even play in while he was semi-pro before he came to school, Tom Wort (LB). Hell we’ve had so many injuries on the Offensive Line that we have one walk on starting and another covering three different spots as the primary back up.

There are some fans calling for some changes, I am amongst them, but not for Bob to be changed. I’d like to replace Kevin Wilson as the OC and James Patton as the Oline coach. Kevin’s great up three TDs and with all the talent in the world but he doesn’t make adjustments and if his game plan isn’t completely effective he goes turtle and hides in his shell. James Patton is just a moron and a shitty coach; prime example was against Nebraska; you’re obviously going to double team somebody on their line… I’d prefer it to be the All everything future top 5 pick in the NFL draft and not the sophomore standing next to him all game long.

Stoops leaving is highly unlikely… the regents and Boren love him as has been stated already, he raises a lot of money for the school and not just in football form. OU is going to let him go without a fight and money is never going to be an issue at Oklahoma; people may perceive OU as being some small shit school on the prairie nationally but anyone who takes a look at the truth should know better… two of the country’s 15 richest people are OU alumni, the nation’s third largest media conglomerate is owned by a bunch of OU grads and boosters (The Gaylord Family who the stadium and Journalism/Mass Comm school are both named after), at least two NFL franchises are owned by Oklahoma alumni (Denver and Tennessee), and NBA franchise (Thunder), and all that is before you even mention the multiplicity of fortune 500 companies bank rolling The University like Chesapeake Energy, OG&E, Conoco-Phillips 66, and Bank of Oklahoma.

Beyond that why would Stoops want to leave for other reasons right now when his wife is making over $2,000,000 a year and the head sales rep for Mary Kay in the Oklahoma Region and her Pink Caddy not having to be paid for by her husband. The Stoops family is now building their third Ginormous house in the Norman area. Stoops also has a recruiting class coming in that is absolutely sick which is rated as the #1,#2, and #5 class in the country respectively amongst the three major recruiting services; 2 of the top 3 runningbacks in the country in Brandon Clay and Roy Finch (who is the reason I had to give up my officer position as a Niceville booster this season since I am an Oklahoma Alumni and donor), the top dual threat QB in Blake Bell, and a real possibility at landing the top OLineman in the country and a top 5 receiver still on the board who has all but committed and likely will after his last visit is taken.

I just don’t see Bob leaving based on a small minority of rednecks bitching on message boards while watching the games from their couch after their shift job is over… but that’s JMHO.

[JayDuck]

it's at best a lateral move. actually, i think OU is a much better job. to be honest.

That's not even something you need to "think" about. OU is a far better job and Its not even close.

Not sure when the national media as a whole is going to finally realize it, but some of the younger guys at least are beginning to turn around that perception in the media. No matter how slowly the powers that be want to keep things the same, the college football landscape has been forever changed a long time ago now.

I'm not saying that Notre Dame is a place you "can't win" at anymore, or that there isn't somebody out there that can make them a national player again. But it won't happen because "its Notre Dame". They don't have any real significant advantages in the modern game over other programs anymore. The TV contract is pretty much meaningless in terms of access, as every team in the upper half of any BCS conference has all of their games televised. Money is nice, but every top program draws in endless buckets of cash, and there are always the T. Boone Pickens' and Phil Knight's even at next tier programs.

So what's left? A more national fanbase? With Notre Dame being a punchline since before today's high school kids were born, I don't see it having that much sway that their parents root for Notre Dame.

The schedule is a relic that is hurting them as well. Nobody wants to watch a team play service academies every year, and losing to them only adds insult to injury. It isn't doing them any favors right now with Michigan tanking too. Ironically, while many people were bitching about the BCS being in Notre Dame's pocket, with the "Notre Dame rules" a few years ago, I'd say the BCS era is probably having a more negative impact on them than good. The other thing that its done is made strength of schedule, and scheduling, a much bigger and more talked about issue than it used to be. And Notre Dame's been playing 1 or 2 perceived good teams a year recently.

Fuck, I'd rather keep MY job than take the Notre Dame job.

Notre Dame can be fine again someday, but I'm not sure I see when it will happen. Right now its a relic trying to hang on to a college football past landscape that isn't coming back again. And it seems to me that its not even entirely up to Notre Dame to break the cycle. They need everybody from administration, to the national media, to realize that its over and become something new.

Or hell, they can just wallow around in this shit if they want to for all I care too.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

Ironically, while many people were bitching about the BCS being in Notre Dame's pocket, with the "Notre Dame rules" a few years ago, I'd say the BCS era is probably having a more negative impact on them than good.

In what respect? ND's got a free ticket to a BCS bowl if they can just stop losing to Navy and random .500 slappies. They typically start the season ranked, and if they rip off 2 or 3 wins in a row then it's "ND is back!!!!" from the mass media. ND is capable of climbing the polls faster than just about any other team in the country. Hell, a quick glance at the AP poll shows they shot from 23rd to 18th just after the Nevada win. ND's biggest enemy is ND. The BCS is doing everything it can to showcase ND, but ND can't hold up its end of the bargain.

[JayDuck]

Ironically, while many people were bitching about the BCS being in Notre Dame's pocket, with the "Notre Dame rules" a few years ago, I'd say the BCS era is probably having a more negative impact on them than good.

In what respect? ND's got a free ticket to a BCS bowl if they can just stop losing to Navy and random .500 slappies. They typically start the season ranked, and if they rip off 2 or 3 wins in a row then it's "ND is back!!!!" from the mass media. ND is capable of climbing the polls faster than just about any other team in the country. Hell, a quick glance at the AP poll shows they shot from 23rd to 18th just after the Nevada win. ND's biggest enemy is ND. The BCS is doing everything it can to showcase ND, but ND can't hold up its end of the bargain.

Oh, no doubt the system is in place to help out Notre Dame. That wasn't my point. My point was that its ironic that it hasn't played out that way. We keep hearing things like "this is the year" for Notre Dame, because preseason the look at their schedule and see only 1 or 2 good teams on it. But they can't take advantage of it, so they just come across as a team with a shitty schedule that still sucks.

[buckeye_in_sc]

Stoops is waiting for the Iowa job to open up...DUH

[King Crimson]

Stoops is waiting for the Iowa job to open up...DUH

someday, i hope Ferentz will be coaching both Iowa and Oklahoma. he's THAT good.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

Stoops is waiting for the Iowa job to open up...DUH

Yeah, but only because it looks like Tedford's staying put.

[War Stoops]

To your original question, Killian, Oklahoma is very lucky to have Bob Stoops as head coach and the majority of Sooner fans, I think, not only want him to stay but wouldn't trade him for any coach in CFB including Meyer, Carroll, Brown, etc. He has returned Oklahoma to national prominence and done it in a professional manner that has attracted and developed dozens of great players and quality young men. He's not infallible. He's never fired an assistant, he's kind of a prick with the media, and he's struggled away from home (especially in bowls). But overall, his record is tremendous.

Like all big-time programs, OU has some fans that are fucktards and/or asshats. They are vocal but they are in the minority. All OU fans have complaints (I'm not a fan of the spread offense and would prefer a ball-control, pro-style offense) but that doesn't mean that we aren't proud of Coach Stoops and his program.

He probably isn't going to take the ND job but if he does, you will have a great, great football coach in South Bend.

[H4ever]

Ironically, while many people were bitching about the BCS being in Notre Dame's pocket, with the "Notre Dame rules" a few years ago, I'd say the BCS era is probably having a more negative impact on them than good.

In what respect? ND's got a free ticket to a BCS bowl if they can just stop losing to Navy and random .500 slappies. They typically start the season ranked, and if they rip off 2 or 3 wins in a row then it's "ND is back!!!!" from the mass media. ND is capable of climbing the polls faster than just about any other team in the country. Hell, a quick glance at the AP poll shows they shot from 23rd to 18th just after the Nevada win. ND's biggest enemy is ND. The BCS is doing everything it can to showcase ND, but ND can't hold up its end of the bargain.

Rack! Sorry Irish fans...that's the m'fing truth. Also, we Nebraska fans had no problems or obstacles in turning South Bend 60% red when we played them. Where's the mystique?

[Killian]

This has nothing to do about the "state of Notre Dame football". It was simply a question about the majority of OU fans feelings towards Stoops. I agree with a lot of what was said w/r/t ND, but that's for a whole other post.

If the Notre Dame administration doen't get in the way of the AD, and the AD is who I think he is (both huge reaches), ND will have no problem landing a great coach. Like I said in another post, if Brian Kelly is your floor, you rand a fantastic search. Either way, I'm not hopeful of the two things I mentioned actually happening.

[TheJON]

There are some OU fans that feel that way. They're fucking idiots, and they are nowhere near a majority. The majority would probably like a couple of changes in the assistants (though nobody can agree on which assistant needs to go) but the Regents and President Boren are extremely happy with Stoops.

As for being able to recruit nationally, that's silly. Stoops recruits well in several states, not just Oklahoma and Texas.

The Ohio connection? He turned Ohio State down. Why would his Ohio ties to Notre Dame be any greater than to Ohio State?

Stoops issues the same "non-denial denial" every year.

He just started construction on a big-ass house in Norman.

well he turned down OSU 2 years into the OU job, and right after winning a national title. Why do people keep talking about his Ohio ties? Dude was born there and lived there up until college. He didn't play college ball in Ohio nor did he ever coach there. Stoops would never take a Big-10 job other than Iowa. I guarantee it. He's a Hawkeye. His family is still die-hard Iowa fans. When Iowa faced Mike Stoops this year, Bob was asked if he'd ever want to play Iowa and he said the only time he would ever want to play us is if it were the national title game. Heck, his dad was buried in an Iowa jersey. If I were ND I would go hard after Stoops. I wouldn't predict it to happen, but there's a chance. But the ONLY way to land him is to not go after anyone else and just make him aware he's the only candidate and throw a lot of money at him. Make him feel like you don't want anyone else but him. This was the mistake Iowa made. Stoops was ours to lose. He made it public that he wanted the Iowa job and our idiot AD wanted to interview other guys. Then OU decided that Stoops was the guy they wanted and didn't go after anyone else and while Iowa was dicking around with a retarded coaching search, OU actually offered him a job. I will never forget the meltdown here when that happened. Weren't you living here at that time, BtH? I recall the high fiving at school about how we were about to get Stoops and then days kept going by and we hadn't even offered him the job and everyone was wondering what the fuck was going on. Oh well, things turned out just fine for Stoops/OU and for Iowa and I'm happy for both teams.

[Killian]

I think people talk about his Ohio ties because his brother still coaches at Cardinal Mooney. Other than that, they're pretty slim.

This coaching search should not be that hard for Notre Dame. If the AD is the least bit competent, he will have vetted the candidates on his list over a year ago when he was thinking about canning Weis. At that point, there should be at most two questions to his candidates starting with his first choice: Are you interested in the Notre Dame job? If yes, what will it take?

End of discussion.

If Urban Meyer, Bob Stoops, Nick Saban, Jon Gruden or Brian Kelly say yes to the first question, you answer their demands to the second, unless it's completely out of whack, i.e. 10-15 JUCO's a year. Urban Meyer says yes to the first question and then says he wants 6 million a year for 10 year? Done. Guaranteed admissions for their childern to Notre Dame? Done.

It's not going to be Meyer or Saban. I highly doubt it's going to be Stoops. But Gruden or Kelly can be had if you approach it the way I said above. For those two, I wouldn't give them as long a contract or let them name their price because neither of them have won a NC. Money is not an object for ND, and they shouldn't let moral superiority be an object, either.

[Terry in Crapchester]

If I were ND I would go hard after Stoops. I wouldn't predict it to happen, but there's a chance. But the ONLY way to land him is to not go after anyone else and just make him aware he's the only candidate and throw a lot of money at him. Make him feel like you don't want anyone else but him. This was the mistake Iowa made. Stoops was ours to lose. He made it public that he wanted the Iowa job and our idiot AD wanted to interview other guys. Then OU decided that Stoops was the guy they wanted and didn't go after anyone else and while Iowa was dicking around with a retarded coaching search, OU actually offered him a job. I will never forget the meltdown here when that happened.

I see your point, but there's a huge risk associated with this tack. Stoops is still a bit of a reach, and if you make it clear that Stoops is your guy, and he later turns you down, you have problems. Particularly if someone like Gruden is your next choice, and Gruden has plenty of other options available to him (NFL, remain on MNF, etc.)

If the Notre Dame administration doen't get in the way of the AD, and the AD is who I think he is (both huge reaches), . . .

I've lost a lot of confidence in Swarbrick, and it goes far beyond the coaching situation. 7-4-1 is even more egregious, imho. I mean, this is a guy who brought a Super Bowl and a Final Four to Indianapolis, yet he can't figure out a way to buy us out of 7-4-1. And as a result, we wind up with five non-BCS opponents next year. WTF is that?

Swarbrick says all the right things about maintaining independence, yet he's either talking out of both sides of his mouth, or he hasn't yet figured out that 7-4-1 is the biggest threat of all to ND's continued independence. He's definitely not stupid, so my bet, at this point, would be on the former.

[Killian]

I hate the schedule next year and the thought of 7-4-1 is awful, but I'm going to give Swarbrick a pass for right now. He was dealt a shitty hand with what White left, and I think he is trying to do the best with it. He's already gotten ND out of a "barnstorming" game against Baylor, and is trying to negotiate a 1-1-1 with Alabama. Those are steps in the right direction. If the 7-4-1 is a mandate handed down by the university, then approach it this way and set up home and homes with elite teams, and agree to a neutral site game. I think the Army game next year in Yankee stadium as the "1" game was a great move as well.

Whether he likes it or not, his entire tenure as AD will be riding on this hire. I think he knows that, and I like the fact that he's an alum who is tuned into current sporting events. I honestly believe that if Fr. Jenkins keep the Monk sycophants off of Swarbrick's back, ND will end up with a great hire.

[SunCoastSooner]

There are some OU fans that feel that way. They're fucking idiots, and they are nowhere near a majority. The majority would probably like a couple of changes in the assistants (though nobody can agree on which assistant needs to go) but the Regents and President Boren are extremely happy with Stoops.

As for being able to recruit nationally, that's silly. Stoops recruits well in several states, not just Oklahoma and Texas.

The Ohio connection? He turned Ohio State down. Why would his Ohio ties to Notre Dame be any greater than to Ohio State?

Stoops issues the same "non-denial denial" every year.

He just started construction on a big-ass house in Norman.

well he turned down OSU 2 years into the OU job, and right after winning a national title. Why do people keep talking about his Ohio ties? Dude was born there and lived there up until college. He didn't play college ball in Ohio nor did he ever coach there. Stoops would never take a Big-10 job other than Iowa. I guarantee it. He's a Hawkeye. His family is still die-hard Iowa fans. When Iowa faced Mike Stoops this year, Bob was asked if he'd ever want to play Iowa and he said the only time he would ever want to play us is if it were the national title game. Heck, his dad was buried in an Iowa jersey. If I were ND I would go hard after Stoops. I wouldn't predict it to happen, but there's a chance. But the ONLY way to land him is to not go after anyone else and just make him aware he's the only candidate and throw a lot of money at him. Make him feel like you don't want anyone else but him. This was the mistake Iowa made. Stoops was ours to lose. He made it public that he wanted the Iowa job and our idiot AD wanted to interview other guys. Then OU decided that Stoops was the guy they wanted and didn't go after anyone else and while Iowa was dicking around with a retarded coaching search, OU actually offered him a job. I will never forget the meltdown here when that happened. Weren't you living here at that time, BtH? I recall the high fiving at school about how we were about to get Stoops and then days kept going by and we hadn't even offered him the job and everyone was wondering what the fuck was going on. Oh well, things turned out just fine for Stoops/OU and for Iowa and I'm happy for both teams.

With all undue respect Jonsense, you don't know what the fuck you're talking about in respect to what you just stated as fact about Oklahoma and it's coaching search in 1999. Stoops wasn't offered the job until six days after he interviewed at Oklahoma and certainly wasn't OU's only option as you try and make it sound. Joe Castiglione also interviewed Gary Patterson, Dennis Franchione, and Terry Bowden, just to name a few. The committee decided on Bob and put the offer out there; from what I understand it really came down to him and Gary Patterson with Terry Bowden offering everyone related to the search Blow jobs and reach arounds for the opportunity. In the end the committee decided they wanted the young up and comer who would not only rebuild the program but likely be here for an extended time if successful. We may have beat Iowa to the punch with their limp wristed AD at the time but it was far from a one a man chase for the position as you make it sound.

[CintiBearcat92]

Killian, among the candidates who you think ND could possibly get, rate your top five for me in order. I'd really like to see how this list looks. If I were to take a poll among the ND community, would they likely agree with your list or are there significant differences?

[SunCoastSooner]

If Urban Meyer, Bob Stoops, Nick Saban, Jon Gruden or Brian Kelly say yes to the first question, you answer their demands to the second, unless it's completely out of whack, i.e. 10-15 JUCO's a year. Urban Meyer says yes to the first question and then says he wants 6 million a year for 10 year? Done. Guaranteed admissions for their childern to Notre Dame? Done.

Oklahoma and Alabama with their list of multi-millionaire donors and fortune 500 companies backing them can match anything Notre Dame is willing to unload when it comes to annual salary ad bonuses... if you think that it is money that is going to buy either of those coaches you're only fooling yourself and just as delusional as the people on your homer boards.

[Killian]

If Urban Meyer, Bob Stoops, Nick Saban, Jon Gruden or Brian Kelly say yes to the first question, you answer their demands to the second, unless it's completely out of whack, i.e. 10-15 JUCO's a year. Urban Meyer says yes to the first question and then says he wants 6 million a year for 10 year? Done. Guaranteed admissions for their childern to Notre Dame? Done.

Oklahoma and Alabama with their list of multi-millionaire donors and fortune 500 companies backing them can match anything Notre Dame is willing to unload when it comes to annual salary ad bonuses... if you think that it is money that is going to buy either of those coaches you're only fooling yourself and just as delusional as the people on your homer boards.

You interprited my post wrong. ND, before Weis, always had the reputation of paying their coaches well below the current average salary. Essentially, they wanted to be the Yankees with the payroll of the A's. Weis bucked that trend, slightly. Notre Dame, as well as many, many universities, has the resources to pay their coaches whatever they want. So no, ND won't get Meyer, Saban, Stoops, etc. just by saying "Here's 5 million a year for 10 years". But if they speak to any of those coaches and the coach says "Look, I have a great thing going, I make a ton of money, but I am interested in the ND job. I'm currently making 3 million a year, but it would tak 6 million a year to make the jump", ND should say done, here's the contract. A coach looking to make a jump from one major program to another doesn't need the money, and that won't be a factor. If Bob Stoops were to leave OU, it wouldn't be for more money. Maybe he's tired of the fans, tired of the state of Oklahoma, etc. That's why these guys leave. But if it comes to the point that you get one of them to the point they want to leave, don't let money be the sticking point.

[Killian]

Killian, among the candidates who you think ND could possibly get, rate your top five for me in order. I'd really like to see how this list looks. If I were to take a poll among the ND community, would they likely agree with your list or are there significant differences?

That's a difficult question. The list of coaches who I think they should call, and the ones I think they can get are different lists. It's my opinion that in a coaching search you throw the hail mary calls out to the top guys to see if they are interested. Same reason you ask out the hottest fucking girl in the bar. Maybe she says yes.

So, who I think they should call:

1. Urban Meyer
2. Bob Stoops
3. Jon Gruden
4. Nick Saban
5. Brian Kelly

Who I think they could get:

1. Jon Gruden
2. Brian Kelly

After that, I think there is a huge drop off. Perhaps Patterson from TCU should be on that list, I just don't know much about him.

I think with most of ND Nation, you will see a lot of the names I mentioned in the first list. People will not want certain candidates considered for their own reasons. I know Terry isn't a big fan of Meyer any longer, and I went to State when Saban was there so I know what type of program he can run (the ugly side).

Some guys completely dismiss Kelly because he hasn't done it on a stage where the lights are as bright as Notre Dame. There is some truth to some of what they say, but every candidate has warts. I've stated what my concerns with Kelly are, and that's not one of them. The more I see Kelly talk, the more I like him. One thing you can't argue is the man's coaching ability.

My list on who they could get is tainted a bit by my love for Gruden. I wanted him back in 2001 when Notre Dame fucked it up, and I want him again now. Like I said, if ND has to "settle" for Brian Kelly, it will be the best coaching search they've run since they hired Holtz. If they get past Kelly, I do not trust them to make the right call.

[King Crimson]

Maybe he's tired of the fans, tired of the state of Oklahoma, etc.

wtf does this mean? like Indiana is a big pleasure palace compared to OK? ND fans are all saints and reasonable as the day is long? the guy is from Youngstown, Ohio...not London or Milan. his kids are in school in Norman...and Norman has excellent public schools. this is kind of insulting, K. you sound like Texas fan or m2.

[Killian]

Maybe he's tired of the fans, tired of the state of Oklahoma, etc.

wtf does this mean? like Indiana is a big pleasure palace compared to OK? ND fans are all saints and reasonable as the day is long? the guy is from Youngstown, Ohio...not London or Milan. his kids are in school in Norman...and Norman has excellent public schools. this is kind of insulting, K. you sound like Texas fan or m2.

Oh my God, seriously? I'm having a conversation and trying to say that it's not money that will lure any big time coach away from any program, but outside factors. I'm not saying that Stoops is tired of the fans or tired of the state of Oklahoma, I'm saying it's reasons such as those that would cause big time coaches to consider a move. Big time coaches, not Stoops specifically.

It's friday, I think you need to punch out and hit happy hour early! :D

[King Crimson]

It's friday, I think you need to punch out and hit happy hour early! :D

dude, i wish. i have to teach a half-empty class at noon but will be early and often to enjoy the T-giving break with libations.

[SunCoastSooner]

Maybe he's tired of the fans, tired of the state of Oklahoma, etc.

wtf does this mean? like Indiana is a big pleasure palace compared to OK? ND fans are all saints and reasonable as the day is long? the guy is from Youngstown, Ohio...not London or Milan. his kids are in school in Norman...and Norman has excellent public schools. this is kind of insulting, K. you sound like Texas fan or m2.

I second that. As far as public school systems go Norman is about as good as they come anywhere in the country and I have lived all over the states growing up. I was always impressed with the Norman school district while in college. It's comparable with many of the top districts in the country.

Norman also isn't a stretch from the OKC area anymore... it's been engulfed by the metro; even more so now than even while I was there. The Oklahoma City area also isn't just some shit city on the plains anymore either; it was growing when I was there and the last time I visited I was pretty damn impressed with the way it has "grown up". It's a metro area (not city proper but metro area) over well over 1.5 million people, I saw a statistic a few months ago that said that over 2/3 of the state's population lives within a 50 mile radius of the state capital building, according to every major publication that follows and measures the economy it is the 2nd or 3rd strongest metro area in the country economically, it has an NBA team, a very successful AAA baseball franchise in one of the most beautiful ballparks in the country that is less than a decade old, will soon have an AHL team since the CHL franchise who for a number of years had the highest attendance in all of minor league hockey folded in deferment to the efforts to bring in a higher class of hockey, White Water Water Park, Frontier City theme park, The University of Oklahoma's Sam Noble Museum of Natural Sciences (which is one of the finest in the world), The Cowboy and Western Heritage Hall of Fame, Oklahoma City regularly hosts both men's and women's NCAA Tournament games (which if you know Bob anything about Bob Stoops you should know about his love of basketball and has stated many times that after he retires from coaching football would love to coach a Junior High basketball team), Bricktown entertainment district with its abundance of night life (which even impressed me and my ex-wife who are Austin and San Antonio natives respectively, when my sister took us there while we were visiting for the TCU and Tulsa games years ago), The Bricktown Canal which I thought is a hell of a lot nicer and better smelling than the Green Sewage Riverwalk in San Antonio, The Oklahoma City Zoo which is world renowned as one of the top ten zoos in the country and the first Zoo in the world to have successfully bred three different species of monkeys, the Kirkpatrick Center which boasts a hell of a children's science and natural history museum, and those are just off the top of my head. Beyond that Oklahoma High schools have some of the best football going; they don't have the bulk population of California, Florida, and Texas but I have lived in all three of those states in my life and played high school ball in one of them... the top flight teams in Oklahoma such as Jenks, Tulsa Union, Lawton Ike, Southmoore, Putnam City North, Mid West City, Norman, Norman North etc. are very comparable to the top flight teams in the big three... there just isn't the number of teams.

Hell now that I really put some thought into it what the hell does South Bend have in comparison? And that isn't an insult... it's just an honest to G-d question and don't reply with Chicago or St. Louis isn't that far of a drive... neither is Dallas from Norman relatively and it's still part of the OKC metro.

I'm not saying these things to be offensive but seriously South Bend isn't exactly a mecca of urban sprawl itself.

[Killian]

Jesus Christ, I'm not comparing South Bend/Notre Dame to Norman, Oklahoma. I'm stating reasons why an elite coach would leave an elite program HYPOTHETICALLY. We've established that it will not be money because money is the same everywhere. It's not a step up, if anything, it's a step back. That leaves personal preference for a coach, and you never know that unless you make the call. I have no reason to doubt all of that shit you said about Norman. But if you were to get an elite coach from an elite program it would be because of ego and wanting to win national championships at multiple schools or he's tired of the current position and looking for a new challenge. Holtz could still coach, but he was burned out by the ND job by the end of '96. Shit like that happens. It would take something like that to get Meyer, Stoops, Saban, etc.

[SunCoastSooner]

Jesus Christ, I'm not comparing South Bend/Notre Dame to Norman, Oklahoma. I'm stating reasons why an elite coach would leave an elite program HYPOTHETICALLY. We've established that it will not be money because money is the same everywhere. It's not a step up, if anything, it's a step back. That leaves personal preference for a coach, and you never know that unless you make the call. I have no reason to doubt all of that shit you said about Norman. But if you were to get an elite coach from an elite program it would be because of ego and wanting to win national championships at multiple schools or he's tired of the current position and looking for a new challenge. Holtz could still coach, but he was burned out by the ND job by the end of '96. Shit like that happens. It would take something like that to get Meyer, Stoops, Saban, etc.

Sorry I was typing my post while you replied to KC... I had already sent it in. I just get sick of the stereotypes about OKC/Edmond/Norman and the University and I don't even live there any more and really never have outside of college. The misconceptions that there are about OKC are mind boggling and for the most part perpetrated by people who have either never been to the city or haven't done so since the 80s or early 90s.