Time to get counseling, Van

TheJON · Post by **TheJON** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 4:41 am

Your hatred for Iowa and your inability to just admit you've been so wrong about Iowa all year and your inability to give them the credit they deserve is rather pathetic.

Go get counseling man.

Van · Post by **Van** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 5:06 am

Jon, were it not for you, hey, I'd have no problem with Iowa. You've m2'd Iowa. Your incessant, myopic, SEC-style ball sucking for a perennially meh team is just nails on a chalkboard. Because of you, I don't just see Iowa as a slightly above average team with incredibly good fortune this season. Nope, I see them as a slightly above team with incredibly good fortune which I want to see lose, strictly because you're the most obnoxious, juvenile poster on the board...unless we're to consider m2 and socaltrjn real posters, which most of us don't.

If it were just Mace, I wouldn't even care. You're just a pox on Iowa, to the point that poor little Iowa has become the Cal of the Big 10.

M Club · Post by **M Club** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 7:30 am

jon's myopia re: iowa probably has to do with the fact he's an iowa fan. most fans really only care about their team and, predictably, tend to relate the rest of cfb to the team they're most familiar with. jon's really only guilty of two things:

1. insisting iowa is the third best program, historically speaking, in the big ten.

2. trying to excuse iowa's struggles with isu on account that their rivalry is iowa state's super bowl. sure, i guess, though that only explains the enthusiasm isu brings to the game, not the fact they actually beat iowa on a regular basis.

otherwise, jon is perfectly reasonable when discussing iowa's place in the cfb world. you're just pissed he needs about 17 less paragraphs than you to make the exact same point.

MgoBlue-LightSpecial · Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:38 pm

Gotta go with Van on this one. JON's obnoxiousness is the only thing stopping me from throwing on my black and gold and rooting for the Hawks to win out. Sad thing is, his kind represents the average Iowa fan to a tee. I'd know as I'm in the hub of Big Ten country, and am surrounded by these tools. You know how they say your average fanbase is down to earth, with a few douchebags sprinkled in? It's the opposite with Iowa fan. Guys like Mace seem to be the exception.

Ken · Post by **Ken** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 2:14 pm

I'm growing pretty tired of jon's constant pimping and defending of Iowa. This thread is the perfect example of that. I'm with mgo... If it weren't for Jon, I'd be rooting for Iowa.

TheJON · Post by **TheJON** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 2:29 pm

MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote:Gotta go with Van on this one. JON's obnoxiousness is the only thing stopping me from throwing on my black and gold and rooting for the Hawks to win out. Sad thing is, his kind represents the average Iowa fan to a tee. I'd know as I'm in the hub of Big Ten country, and am surrounded by these tools. You know how they say your average fanbase is down to earth, with a few douchebags sprinkled in? It's the opposite with Iowa fan. Guys like Mace seem to be the exception.

You and Van are the biggest fucking hypocrites I have ever fucking seen. You want me to bring back offseason threads where I had to listen to you guys run your mouthes all offseason? Iowa is getting no respect for the simple reason that we're Iowa. Not because of the team, but because we're Iowa. I am just simply giving this team the props it deserves because nobody else will. If you got a problem with that, fuck off. I couldn't give a shit. Maybe next year watch what you and Van say in the offseason and tell the media to give us the fucking credit we deserve. Van's act is absolutely fucking childish and garbage and he's even admitted in this thread he can't be objective. Its funny how you call me out, yet you fail to call Van out for going out of his way to rip on Iowa in 90 percent of his posts. You think I'm an Iowa homer? Shit man, what the fuck does that make Van? The biggest fucking Pac-10 honk ever? Rip on my team and I will defend them especially when they deserve to be defended. Got a problem with that? Tell someone who fucking cares, cunt.

Killian · Post by **Killian** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 2:37 pm

TheJON wrote:
MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote:Gotta go with Van on this one. JON's obnoxiousness is the only thing stopping me from throwing on my black and gold and rooting for the Hawks to win out. Sad thing is, his kind represents the average Iowa fan to a tee. I'd know as I'm in the hub of Big Ten country, and am surrounded by these tools. You know how they say your average fanbase is down to earth, with a few douchebags sprinkled in? It's the opposite with Iowa fan. Guys like Mace seem to be the exception.
You and Van are the biggest fucking hypocrites I have ever fucking seen. You want me to bring back offseason threads where I had to listen to you guys run your mouthes all offseason? Iowa is getting no respect for the simple reason that we're Iowa. Not because of the team, but because we're Iowa. I am just simply giving this team the props it deserves because nobody else will. If you got a problem with that, fuck off. I couldn't give a shit. Maybe next year watch what you and Van say in the offseason and tell the media to give us the fucking credit we deserve. Van's act is absolutely fucking childish and garbage and he's even admitted in this thread he can't be objective. Its funny how you call me out, yet you fail to call Van out for going out of his way to rip on Iowa in 90 percent of his posts. You think I'm an Iowa homer? Shit man, what the fuck does that make Van? The biggest fucking Pac-10 honk ever? Rip on my team and I will defend them especially when they deserve to be defended. Got a problem with that? Tell someone who fucking cares, cunt.

TheJON · Post by **TheJON** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 2:39 pm

M Club wrote:jon's myopia re: iowa probably has to do with the fact he's an iowa fan. most fans really only care about their team and, predictably, tend to relate the rest of cfb to the team they're most familiar with. jon's really only guilty of two things:

1. insisting iowa is the third best program, historically speaking, in the big ten.

2. trying to excuse iowa's struggles with isu on account that their rivalry is iowa state's super bowl. sure, i guess, though that only explains the enthusiasm isu brings to the game, not the fact they actually beat iowa on a regular basis.

otherwise, jon is perfectly reasonable when discussing iowa's place in the cfb world. you're just pissed he needs about 17 less paragraphs than you to make the exact same point.

Exactly, except we don't lose to ISU regularly. Their little run is over. They haven't even reached the end zone in 14 quarters against our D. But yeah, I don't ever overhype Iowa. I know where our progra$ stands and its not elite. Never claimed it to be. But I spent all offseason reading shit from Van about how MSU has a better program than Iowa and Ferentz is a garbage coach. What the fuck am I supposed to say to that shit? "Yeah, Van, you're right. Ferentz blows, Iowa is the worst program ever, our team will suck this year, and now let's go get some hot cocoa and discuss how bad Iowa is"??? What Van wants to do is run his mouth and not have anyone call him out for it. And then when they do, he calls them classless. He's the most sackless pussy these boards have ever seen. Here's a tip- if you don't want someone to smack back at you, shut your fucking mouth. Its that simple.

MgoBlue-LightSpecial · Tue Nov 03, 2009 2:52 pm

[img]http://kjrhimg.dayport.com/img/dp_thumbs/thumb_1190518590215_0p9577015066677685.jpg[/img] wrote:You and Van are the biggest fucking hypocrites I have ever fucking seen. You want me to bring back offseason threads where I had to listen to you guys run your mouthes all offseason? Iowa is getting no respect for the simple reason that we're Iowa. Not because of the team, but because we're Iowa. I am just simply giving this team the props it deserves because nobody else will. If you got a problem with that, fuck off. I couldn't give a shit. Maybe next year watch what you and Van say in the offseason and tell the media to give us the fucking credit we deserve. Van's act is absolutely fucking childish and garbage and he's even admitted in this thread he can't be objective. Its funny how you call me out, yet you fail to call Van out for going out of his way to rip on Iowa in 90 percent of his posts. You think I'm an Iowa homer? Shit man, what the fuck does that make Van? The biggest fucking Pac-10 honk ever? Rip on my team and I will defend them especially when they deserve to be defended. Got a problem with that? Tell someone who fucking cares, cunt.

Killian · Post by **Killian** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 2:53 pm

I'm guessing they would be getting a lot more run if they had burried their 1AA opponet or their other shitty OOC team. They have one decisive victory this year, over a very average ISU team. It may suck, but that's the reason they're not getting any run.

MgoBlue-LightSpecial · Tue Nov 03, 2009 3:04 pm

Screw_Michigan wrote:I'm actually with Noj on this. Iowa isn't getting any run because they're Iowa. Period.

I just think JON's an obnoxious ahole...that doesn't mean I'm hating on the Hawks though. My desire is to see JON meltdown, not to see the Hawkeyes fail. That's what has to be understood here.

I've got Iowa ranked 3rd in my top 10, and I've defended them and their resume in here against others. I think they're a very good team, outside of Stanzi, and I've already conceded to JON that he was right about the Hawkeyes this year. I'm going to lose our sigbet and he'll be able to lay it on me when the season is over. He was right, I was wrong.

JON starts threads bashing MSU coaches, players, fan base, whines about the refs, etc. God forbid I send a little smack back his way.

TheJON · Post by **TheJON** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 3:10 pm

Killian wrote:I'm guessing they would be getting a lot more run if they had burried their 1AA opponet or their other shitty OOC team. They have one decisive victory this year, over a very average ISU team. It may suck, but that's the reason they're not getting any run.

We burried Arizona too. The score doesn't show how the game really went. The only reason we aren't getting respect is because we're Iowa. To say otherwise is just ridiculous. You think if we were Florida and had the same results, they'd be saying these things? Give me a break. "They win close games because they're a defensive team. My god they are the most clutch team I've ever seen. No doubt they're number 1". That's what would be said. We are a defensive team that doesn't beat themselves and makes plays on offense when we need to. What is wrong with that? You realize we've played the majority of the season with our 2nd string offense, right? Yet we still win. That's what hood teams do. 3rd string RB, different O-line EVERy week. No big deal. We'll still find a way to pull it out. This team knows how to win. They don't make excuses. Instead of this team making excuses about starters being lost for the year, they just go out there and win games. And that's not good enough. 13 straight wins and no respect. "They play in the Big-10". Fuck that. We have destroyed 3 bowl teams from other BCS conferences in that streak. This is the kind of bullshit Iowa fan has to deal with. I'm not about to just sit here and take it. Fuck that, this team deserves more. College Fixedball is an absolute fucking joke.

M Club · Post by **M Club** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 3:11 pm

Killian wrote:I'm guessing they would be getting a lot more run if they had burried their 1AA opponet or their other shitty OOC team. They have one decisive victory this year, over a very average ISU team. It may suck, but that's the reason they're not getting any run.

The NIU and Ark State games are convenient excuses for bagging on Iowa. Had they won both games by 20 people would say Iowa's a fraud because they didn't win by 40, and had they won by 40 people would bag on Iowa because they're Iowa, though they'd find any other excuse to grab onto to save admitting this is an issue of branding. The only reason Iowa isn't as OMG FUCKING AWESOME as Texas is because they're an entirely different university that no one cares about. If they end the season undefeated then the only reason to deny them a shot at the MNC is wholly arbitrary, not because of any made-up metrics to measure "scabdick."

M Club · Post by **M Club** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 3:16 pm

Ken wrote:I'm growing pretty tired of jon's constant pimping and defending of Iowa. This thread is the perfect example of that. I'm with mgo... If it weren't for Jon, I'd be rooting for Iowa.

I'm with you. I can't believe an Iowa fan constantly pimps his undefeated team.

King Crimson · Post by **King Crimson** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 3:28 pm

M Club wrote: The NIU and Ark State games are convenient excuses for bagging on Iowa. Had they won both games by 20 people would say Iowa's a fraud because they didn't win by 40, and had they won by 40 people would bag on Iowa because they're Iowa, though they'd find any other excuse to grab onto to save admitting this is an issue of branding.

while i've seen the networks bend over most of the 00's trying to "brand" UT as the big dog in the southern plains/southwest media markets so i can "get that" in terms of the political economy of selling BTPCF to Iowa's detriment, i'm not sure that the NIU/Arkie State games are just "convenient excuses". and the 20/40 logic isn't really convincing me. that seems like inflatable speculation which is still contrary to fact.

Killian · Post by **Killian** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 3:36 pm

TheJON wrote:
Killian wrote:I'm guessing they would be getting a lot more run if they had burried their 1AA opponet or their other shitty OOC team. They have one decisive victory this year, over a very average ISU team. It may suck, but that's the reason they're not getting any run.
We burried Arizona too. The score doesn't show how the game really went. The only reason we aren't getting respect is because we're Iowa.

Don't pull the "the score wasn't indicitive of the game" bullshit because the people detracting from Iowa could say the same thing about the IU win. You're freaking out way too early. You still have to beat Northwestern and Ohio State. If Iowa does that, then they may have the right to bitch.

MgoBlue-LightSpecial · Tue Nov 03, 2009 3:41 pm

Screw_Michigan wrote:I'll always RACK a Mike Gundy reset.

The similarities are actually uncanny.

TheJON wrote:If you want to go after a team, a top 10 team, go after the one that doesn't do the right things. You don't downgrade Iowa because they do everything right. That's why I don't read the message boards, because it's GARBAGE. And the posters that let it come out are GARBAGE. Come after me. I'm a MANCHILD! I'm 28! I'm not a kid. Write something about me, or our fan base. Don't write about a team that does everything right, that just knows how to win, and then say they aren't deserving. That's not TRUE! So get your facts straight. And I hope someday your team goes undefeated and somebody downgrades and belittles them and you have to look them in the eye and say, "You know what? It's okay." That's all I got to say. Makes me want to puke.

Van · Post by **Van** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 4:50 pm

Pretty simple. Remove Jon. Leave Mace.

What's everybody's perception of and rooting interest in Iowa look like then?

Jon/Iowa = m2/Cal...just not quite as much, since Jon doesn't toss out all the stupid pics and the "where you live" smack. Jon also doesn't constantly pimp himself the way m2 does, although his bit about how he has bode over Urban Meyer because he has so much more "character" than UM is rather nauseous.

What Jon does, which is different than just about every other person in here, is he constantly overinflates his team's importance. He's doing it like crazy this year, but even in other years, when Iowa is their usual, forgettable selves, he's constantly harangued us with Iowa's elevated place in the world of BTPCF. His diataribes about Kirk Ferentz being one of the top three coaches in all of CF...his reputation for Iowa always having 85 first rounders...his ridiculous assertions about Iowa's opponents being anything but the cannon fodder they are, etc, these are all symptoms of the same obnoxious, myopic trait.

The other thing Jon does, and he's nearly alone on this board in doing so - though he's managed to infect Mace with it, of late - is his penchant for juvenile, vulgar name calling. When Jon is pressed, he always resorts to schoolyard name calling. Mace is the only other person here who resorts to that, but only rarely.

Okay, 'Spray also does it, but with 'Spray it hardly counts. 'Spray is simply working with an entirely different understanding of pronouns, adverbs and adjectives than most humans.

Jon sticks out like a sore thimb here. He's like the bratty little foulmouthed kid who constantly interrupts the adults at the dinner table with loudly brayed stories nobody cares to hear.

Jon is Calvin, without the redemption of Hobbes.

TheJON · Post by **TheJON** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 5:02 pm

M club is dead on. People are just looking for excuses to rip Iowa. If we had won every game by 40- "they haven't played anyone". I'm sorry, but I'm not about to just sit here and allow people to say shit like this without calling them out and NONE of you would either. Why can't people like Van just admit the real reason they just can't give Iowa respect is because they're Iowa? If you guys were just open up front about it, I wouldn't be having these pissing matches with you. Look, this is an elitist sport and no fan of an elite program or media member wants somebody else to try and take the spot of an elite program. Why can't you tards just admit this? At least be honest with yourselves. Its not Iowa's team, it's the fact that it's Iowa. Rigged sports are awesome! And Killian, Iowa fucking destroyed Arizona. You clearly did not watch that game so please refrain from commenting.

M Club · Post by **M Club** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 5:12 pm

King Crimson wrote: while i've seen the networks bend over most of the 00's trying to "brand" UT as the big dog in the southern plains/southwest media markets so i can "get that" in terms of the political economy of selling BTPCF to Iowa's detriment, i'm not sure that the NIU/Arkie State games are just "convenient excuses". and the 20/40 logic isn't really convincing me. that seems like inflatable speculation which is still contrary to fact.

the excuses are convenient because, yes, even if they won those games handily you'd still have hacks in the national media [or fools like van] trying to explain away iowa's legitimacy. perhaps that logic doesn't convince you, sure, but i'll go watch cincy roll through their schedule while the same hacks make their convenient excuses about a weak conference.

texas? they're awesome because they're...rolling through a conference that should expel two of their members just so they can be a big 10 of their own, that being about as good as the big xii is this year.

TheJON · Post by **TheJON** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 5:12 pm

Van, you are the biggest piece of shit these boards have ever seen. How dare YOU rip on anyone for ANY of that bullshit. You are the epitomy of a "sucker puncher". Fuck you, douchebag. Your childish garbage and insults you've thrown around on here leave you no fucking room to talk. You run your fucking mouth with the best of them, you don't have one fucking ounce of objectivity in your body, and nobody throws around childish takes more than YOU. You're the faggot that throws a sucker punch and then when he gets beat the fuck up, he goes and cries to the Principal about it. You want to run your fucking mouth and just expect people to take it. Fuck you dude. You got NO room to talk. Your act is flat out fucking bush league. Here's some advice, retard, don't run your fucking mouth with such biased bullshit and unknowledgable takes and you won't have responses like I give you. If you can't do that, go fucking play in traffic and get a fucking life.

Van · Post by **Van** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 5:14 pm

Iowa also got wrecked by Indiana, the final score notwithstanding.

The problem with Iowa is twofold: 1-Jon. 2-They never look impressive, not even at home against horrible teams. Every time we see an Iowa game, they look mediocre. Sure, they win the game, but they never impress, especially taking into account their opponent. They didn't even look that impressive against Penn St, and that's their only big win of the year.

When are you going to admit that, Jon? When are you going to admit that scabdicking nearly every week has an effect in what is essentially a beauty contest? Lacking a level playing field on which to compare teams, all people really have is the "eyeball test." Iowa fails that test every time we've seen them. They look like a slightly above .500 team, barely scraping by against a shitload of weak opponents, even at home.

They show up on the "Upset Alert" ticker nearly every week!

That's just a fact. That's what they've done, and that's how they've looked. In the beauty pageant world of CF a team pays the price for scabdicking, and make no mistake, Iowa has scabdicked far more than any of the other undefeateds. Combine their scabdicking with the nation's generally low opinion of the Big 10, and there you go.

indyfrisco · Post by **indyfrisco** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 5:15 pm

Minus jon, I'd still have the same take on Iowa. They are the Ohio State from 2001 that won a lot of close games. If they had Ohio St on their jersey instead of Iowa with the same results, they'd not only be in the top 4 in the BCS right now, but in puiblic opinion as well.

However, while I agree with Mace that a win is a win, I think only at season's end can you apply that logic. At this point in the season, you will without a doubt have to face the SOS, MOV and Quality Win metrics comparitively to the other teams in the mix along with tradition. Fact, Alabama, Texas and Florida, when comparing all these metrics including the (unfair) tradition intangible, are a notch above Iowa and Iowa is #4 right where they probably belong. Should they win out and two of those 3 teams are still undefeated, they'll be on the outside looking in with a legit gripe.

The m2 comparison is a toss-up. I'd have to say jon's history has kind of dug his own grave in the minds of some, but I don't question his passion for his team nor his intent on these boards like m2. Had Kal not "Kal-ed" their season and were undefeated right now, m2 would have a legit gripe to rub it in anyone's face. The whole MSU/Iowa/Ferentz offseason debates give plenty merit for his actions. Now going off on the personal insult tangent isn't called for. There's good natured smack and then there's constant personal instults, even if one here and there would be ok.

Let the dude have his day in the sun. If A&M were 9-0, I'd take a different route of shut the fuck up and just keep hoping for wins. Though I don't blame Mace and/or jon for defending their team/fans, I wouldn't say I'd take either's tact should I be in the positionthey are in. Of course, that's easy to say when there's not been any light on the horizon for some time, but I would guarantee you should that opportunity arise, I'd keep my word.

Van · Post by **Van** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 5:17 pm

TheJON wrote:Van, you are the biggest piece of shit these boards have ever seen. How dare YOU rip on anyone for ANY of that bullshit. You are the epitomy of a "sucker puncher". Fuck you, douchebag. Your childish garbage and insults you've thrown around on here leave you no fucking room to talk. You run your fucking mouth with the best of them, you don't have one fucking ounce of objectivity in your body, and nobody throws around childish takes more than YOU. You're the faggot that throws a sucker punch and then when he gets beat the fuck up, he goes and cries to the Principal about it. You want to run your fucking mouth and just expect people to take it. Fuck you dude. You got NO room to talk. Your act is flat out fucking bush league. Here's some advice, retard, don't run your fucking mouth with such biased bullshit and unknowledgable takes and you won't have responses like I give you. If you can't do that, go fucking play in traffic and get a fucking life.

Like I said.

Jon is a pox. He embarrasses Iowa, and he embarrasses this board.

Harvdog · Post by **Harvdog** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 5:17 pm

Mt. St. Jonsense has fully erupted! Epic melt....

M Club · Post by **M Club** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 5:17 pm

Van wrote:Pretty simple. Remove Jon. Leave Mace.

What's everybody's perception of and rooting interest in Iowa look like then?

Uh, who fucking cares, loser? I think you need to go outside and look at the sky or something. No wonder .m2's always posting photos of the Cali horizon: you haven't seen it in years because you're in some cave formulating thoughts w/r/t a message board.

You've wrestled the title away from Jon:

van=bitch

King Crimson · Post by **King Crimson** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 5:17 pm

i don't think this Texas team is "all that". they may be the team that "just keeps winning" and all that after the fact bad philosophy "team of destiny BS" the sports journalism world creates and squirts off.

i think this UT team finishes 3rd in last year's Big Xii South. the dink dunk underneath O is beatable/unwatchable. Shipley is good, but he's no Limas Sweed stretching D's. OU's JV almost beat those guys.

Iowa and Big 10 fan needs to step back. you *did* only beat Arkie State and Northern Iowa by one score. the Big 10 ain't exactly been ripping shit up in the BCS game lately. Iowa acts like it's unfair to bring that up?

Big 10 fan has this kind of self-fulfilling prophecy.....teams knocking other off means they are good teams because of it and the conference is made a the hardest steel. tautology. could be they aren't very good? "that's Big 10 football" does not equal "that's the best football".

M Club · Post by **M Club** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 5:20 pm

TheJON wrote:Van, you are the biggest piece of shit these boards have ever seen. How dare YOU rip on anyone for ANY of that bullshit. You are the epitomy of a "sucker puncher". Fuck you, douchebag. Your childish garbage and insults you've thrown around on here leave you no fucking room to talk. You run your fucking mouth with the best of them, you don't have one fucking ounce of objectivity in your body, and nobody throws around childish takes more than YOU. You're the faggot that throws a sucker punch and then when he gets beat the fuck up, he goes and cries to the Principal about it. You want to run your fucking mouth and just expect people to take it. Fuck you dude. You got NO room to talk. Your act is flat out fucking bush league. Here's some advice, retard, don't run your fucking mouth with such biased bullshit and unknowledgable takes and you won't have responses like I give you. If you can't do that, go fucking play in traffic and get a fucking life.

Nevermind, looks like Jon took back what was his.

M Club · Post by **M Club** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 5:30 pm

King Crimson wrote: Iowa and Big 10 fan needs to step back. you *did* only beat Arkie State and Northern Iowa by one score. the Big 10 ain't exactly been ripping shit up in the BCS game lately. Iowa acts like it's unfair to bring that up?

Big 10 fan has this kind of self-fulfilling prophecy.....teams knocking other off means they are good teams because of it and the conference is made a the hardest steel. tautology. could be they aren't very good? "that's Big 10 football" does not equal "that's the best football".

Hmm, i thought that train of thought belonged to SECBSH. It was ours for awhile, but it's nearly evaporated over the past few years. [Though, perhaps our bowl record will get a bit better now that our bowl arrangement doesn't require us to play up as much as we've had to, which was perverted even further with OSU's BCS appearences.]

I don't think Iowa fans need to step back. Then again, I've only seen statements about why they're just as deserving to be considered for a BCS appearance as Bama and Florida rather than WE'LL FUCKING KILL THOSE TEAMS!! Indy made a good point about their gripe becoming legitimate at year's end, though I think that argument would be more relevant if we were talking about the likelihood of all those teams finishing undefeated rather than talking about what the pecking order would be like were the season to end like this.

Van · Post by **Van** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 5:31 pm

As much as you'd love for that to be the case, M Club, nope. You won't be able to spin that one to your liking either.

Also, you're dead wrong about Iowa. Had Iowa won each game by 40, as you said, Iowa would be hearing almost none of the crap they're hearing. Yeah, their opponents would be getting questioned, but so what? People are questioning the schedules of Texas and Florida too. In a CF world where people go out of their way to schedule as weakly as possible, that accusation washes right off.

Iowa's problem is how they've looked. It's all their scabdicking. Had Iowa blown everyone out the way Cincy has, Iowa looks golden right now. They'd be making a legitimate case for themselves to supplant Texas as the presumed opponent for the SEC winner, since they have a tougher schedule than Texas.

Instead, all they've set themselves up for is the right to complain about being left out in the cold. In CF, "taking care of your business" extends beyond winning. Anybody who thinks style points don't matter is just plain wrong, especially when you're talking about a non-prestige program. Ohio St may be able to skate by on low MOV wins, but Iowa can't. Also, I guarantee you Ohio St in '02 didn't scabdick the way Iowa has this season. There were no blocked FGs at home to save them against D1-AA teams. There were no three point wins at home against Arky St. Ohio St won some close games, but they weren't constantly nearly losing at home to horrible teams.

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 5:35 pm

King Crimson wrote:Big 10 fan has this kind of self-fulfilling prophecy.....teams knocking other off means they are good teams because of it and the conference is made a the hardest steel. tautology. could be they aren't very good? "that's Big 10 football" does not equal "that's the best football".

Fuck the subjectivity -- let's go with a strict numbers-based ranking...

Sagarins --

1 PAC-10 = 79.47
2 SOUTHEASTERN = 78.42
3 ATLANTIC COAST = 76.04
4 BIG EAST = 75.54
5 BIG 12 = 74.41
6 BIG TEN = 73.59

If you're not familiar with the overall conference predictors -- the gap between 1 and 6 is one for the fucking ages... an exceptionally huge gap.

Probably because the B11 is a fuggin joke this season, and the B12 ain't much better.

Actually, a full point gap between 1 and 2 is fairly large. That stems from the #1 conf being quite a bit better than others in the head-to-heads and common opponents...

yet I don't hear too many people talking about sending the champion of what is, so far, by far the best conference to the championship game.

Ponderous. Best team in best conference = #8? The Pollsters must have learned math at a SEC school.

M Club · Post by **M Club** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 5:40 pm

Van wrote:As much as you'd love for that to be the case, M Club, nope. You won't be able to spin that one to your liking either.

I don't know why you constantly talk about spinning. I don't spin anything so much as I occasionally point out your retarded takes.

Talking about NIU and Ark State are convenient excuses, because now you're pretending Iowa would have just a good a shot at the MNC as Texas/Florida/Bama were they to all [well, pick your SEC rep] finish undefeated. You and the rest of the clowns would start with all your waaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh Big 10 waaaaaaaaaaaah Ohio State waaaaaaaaaaaaaah BS to justify the Texas/SEC game we're going to end up with regardless of whether Iowa scabdicks a few more wins and Cincy wins a royal rumble with the entire country.

M Club · Post by **M Club** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 5:42 pm

Dinsdale wrote: Fuck the subjectivity -- let's go with a strict numbers-based ranking...

ok.

19 - 8

Ken · Post by **Ken** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 5:48 pm

Jsc810 wrote:As much as it pains me to say it, it is possible that the SEC champion will not play for the national championship this year.

If there are two undefeated conference champions from BCS conferences, and the SEC champ has one loss, then the undefeated teams should be in the national championship game. Even if that means we end up with Cincy vs Iowa.

How's the grass out there in right field?

MgoBlue-LightSpecial · Tue Nov 03, 2009 5:50 pm

Fuck the subjectivity -- let's go with a strict numbers-based ranking...

Right, because numbers can't be manipulated to achieve a desired result. Nope. Sagarin was dead to me the moment I saw Cal ranked in his top 15 right after 72-6.

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 5:57 pm

M Club wrote:
Dinsdale wrote: Fuck the subjectivity -- let's go with a strict numbers-based ranking...
ok.

19 - 8

Yes, because sooooo many of the other highly-ranked teams opened the season with an extremely difficult thursday night road game, and played 2 top-20's OOC.

M Club · Post by **M Club** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 6:02 pm

Dinsdale wrote: Yes, because sooooo many of the other highly-ranked teams opened the season with an extremely difficult thursday night road game, and played 2 top-20's OOC.

so? how's that answer the question you posed:

yet I don't hear too many people talking about sending the champion of what is, so far, by far the best conference to the championship game.

Ponderous. Best team in best conference = #8? The Pollsters must have learned math at a SEC school.

it's not ponderous at all.

MgoBlue-LightSpecial · Tue Nov 03, 2009 6:08 pm

What's the big deal with the Pac 10, anyway? It seems to me it's structured just like any other conference. You've got your two good clear-cut teams (Oregon and USC), a whoooooole slew of middlin' teams which don't vary greatly from one another, and then your routine bottom feeder (Wash St). That's different from any other conference, how?

indyfrisco · Post by **indyfrisco** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 7:21 pm

Mgo,

I believe it is because their SOS that inflates their conference ratings at least via Sagarin. Typically, their bottom feeders play quality OOC schedules because they are cupcakes for the other conferences. This inflated the cupcake SOS which in turn helps the top of the conferences' SOS. Computers really like this. We may not put stock in the fact Washington St. plays ND, Washington plays LSU and ND, Stanford plays Wake and ND, etc., but the computers love it. Throw in they play another conference game rather than a cupcake like most other conferences do and it makes sense.

This is one reason why Sagarin likes the PAC so much.

Van · Post by **Van** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 7:28 pm

Indy is exactly right. Add one other component to the same explanation: It isn't just the Pac 10's bottom feeders who avoid loading up on OOC cupcakes. The whole conference plays a higher percentage of OOC games against BCS conference teams, led by their perennial champion.