Basketball in SEC Country

[Screw_Michigan]

Because recruiting is a topic only serious blowhards give two shit about, and there are an awful lot of blowhards in the south. What a news flash: SEC residents are totally detached from reality.

[Dinsdale]

T.R. Dunn

A fine Blazer he was.


And I could bring up the rather SEC-like recruiting tactics the Ducks are engaging in right now, but I think this is the wrong forum.

[Q, West Coast Style]

Well it's sort of a good thing that every SEC recruiting move is being openly discussed and analyzed down there. If SEC recruiting wasn't being performed in the public eye you can bet most programs would be beligerently trampling over the NCAA's telephone book of recruiting rules.

[King Crimson]

disregard for hoops in the Spring is hardly a SEC monopoly. given the success of OU, UT, and ATM over the last 5 years or decade in hoops (and last 25 year for OU: 2 Final Fours, 2 Elite Eight's, and 3-4 Sweet 16's and a NCAA record for consecutive post-season appearances).....taken as an inclusive group, you'd be hard pressed to find dumber, less interested fan bases and half-empty gyms with fairly gaudy success on the floor.

in one of Gillespie's breakout, NCAA years at ATM there was a multi-page thread at texags.com trying to figure out if a low rpi was better than a higher one. serious. on OU hoops boards over the last decade, the invasion of OU football Cletus fan is usually assured after a road loss in conference with stunning (and entirely serious) analysis like "Bob Stoops should coach the basketball team".

[War Wagon]

For the past 30 years, this Mizzoufan never had much to look forward to in football. But our B-ball team was always tough when Norm Stewart patrolled the sideline. Then came Quin, and the bottom fell out.

Man, that sucked. It still sucks. About the only time we can fill our gym now is when the Jaypukers come to town.

That said, I still watch every game. I'm looking forward to tonights tilt in Stillwater.

[Degenerate]

Some people suggested on the radio that it's lingering racism (I don't buy that at all). Others feel that (at least in Alabama) it's 'cause neither UA nor AU seems to be able to sustain a quality program. But that isn't true either 'cause Wimp Sanderson (who was coaching when I attended a lot of games) had some seriously good teams for a long time at Alabama.

You would know better than me, but I thought that b-ball was pretty big (not football big, but still big) back in Wimp's day precisely because he built a team that was always in the mix for a conf. title, plus was pretty entertaining to boot. Other than UK, the only SEC school I can think of that is always near the top of the standings is Florida, and the fans there have always made that trip a tough one for any team, SEC or non-con. And that goes back before BIlly to Norm Sloan, even. I think if you've got a school that makes a decent run in the NCAAs every once in a while but is fair to middling in the conf most other years - and that describes just about every school in the SEC - then it's hard to build a rabid following.

You could come back and say, yeah, but there are SEC schools that don't do jack shit in football but still go nuts every Saturday ('sup South Carolina), and i wouldn't disagree. I think that has more to do with sociology: college football's place in the South during most of the 20th C. when there was an absence of pro sports of any kind for most of the region.

[King Crimson]

Lon Kruger had a final four team at UF (and Elite 8 at KSU), I think. there have been some good non-UK/UF SEC teams. Bama had some good teams after Wimp and Rick Stansbury had some really good Miss State teams.

Vanderbilt was in the sweet 16 last year, haters. :D

the greatest radio combo of all-time was Wimp Sanderson and Chuck Cooperstein....on (here you go RF) on Westwood One.

[Degenerate]

Lon Kruger had a final four team at UF (and Elite 8 at KSU), I think. there have been some good non-UK/UF SEC teams. Bama had some good teams after Wimp and Rick Stansbury had some really good Miss State teams.

Vanderbilt was in the sweet 16 last year, haters. :D

the greatest radio combo of all-time was Wimp Sanderson and Chuck Cooperstein....on (here you go RF) on Westwood
One.

Didn't that Florida team make the Finals, in fact?

I remember they had that big fatass center that everyone called D'meathook.

Lost to Duke in the semis, who in turn lost to Arkansas. UF had a ten-point second half lead in that game, IIRC, then Duke put the clamps down on them and probably drew a million charging calls.

That was a sweet UF team. Damaetri Hill was the center with a sweet short jump shot. Sorty of like a poor man's Kevin Duckworth.

[King Crimson]

Lon Kruger had a final four team at UF (and Elite 8 at KSU), I think. there have been some good non-UK/UF SEC teams. Bama had some good teams after Wimp and Rick Stansbury had some really good Miss State teams.

Vanderbilt was in the sweet 16 last year, haters. :D

the greatest radio combo of all-time was Wimp Sanderson and Chuck Cooperstein....on (here you go RF) on Westwood
One.

Didn't that Florida team make the Finals, in fact?

I remember they had that big fatass center that everyone called D'meathook.

Lost to Duke in the semis, who in turn lost to Arkansas. UF had a ten-point second half lead in that game, IIRC, then Duke put the clamps down on them and probably drew a million charging calls.

That was a sweet UF team. Damaetri Hill was the center with a sweet short jump shot. Sorty of like a poor man's Kevin Duckworth.

that made me laugh, sort of. That UF team was the "M&M boys" (boyz?) with Andrew Moten and whoever was the other "M". right?

[Terry in Crapchester]

that made me laugh, sort of. That UF team was the "M&M boys" (boyz?) with Andrew Moten and whoever was the other "M". right?

Andrew Moten and Vernon Maxwell, but you have your eras mixed. They were there in the mid-to-late 80's. Went to the NCAA tourney for the first time in '87, all the way to the Sweet 16 where they lost to Syracuse, who eventually would lose to Indiana in the finals. People expected big things out of that team after that, but they never quite materialized.

Center on that team was Dwayne Schintzius. He had every bit the ugly hairdo that Joakim Noah had. Unfortunately for him and Gator fans, he had only about 1% of Noah's game. But he was 7'2", so he wound up in the NBA for a few years with the Spurs.

the greatest radio combo of all-time was Wimp Sanderson and Chuck Cooperstein....on (here you go RF) on Westwood
One.

Different sport, but I was always partial to Tony Roberts and Tom Pagna myself. Also on Westwood One, btw.

That was a sweet UF team. Damaetri Hill was the center with a sweet short jump shot. Sorty of like a poor man's Kevin Duckworth.

Uh-oh.

[ucantdoitdoggieSTyle2]

Lost to Duke in the semis, who in turn lost to Arkansas. UF had a ten-point second half lead in that game, IIRC, then Duke put the clamps down on them and probably drew a million charging calls.

That was a sweet UF team. Damaetri Hill was the center with a sweet short jump shot. Sorty of like a poor man's Kevin Duckworth.

I hate you...

See.

That was the year Donyell Marshall got fouled as time expired in regulation with the score tied. All that useless fucker had to do was hit one of two free throws and game over... UConn beats Fla and onto the Elite 8.

But no, he clanks both of 'em and UConn loses in OT.

UConn's 93-94 and 94-95 ( lost to eventual champ UCLA 102-96 in the Elite 8 ) teams were both good enough to win it all. I thought...

[War Wagon]

UConn's 93-94 and 94-95 ( lost to eventual champ UCLA 102-96 in the Elite 8 )

Talk about hate...

That was the year Tyus fucking Edney was allowed to drive the length of the floor in 4.8 seconds and throw in a game winning bank shot over a flat-footed Derek Grimm in the Sweet 16 against Mizzou.

Thanks for reminding me of that. :brad:

[ucantdoitdoggieSTyle2]

That was the year Tyus fucking Edney was allowed to drive the length of the floor in 4.8 seconds...

No shit. All you cunts had to do was not let that happen and UConn would have wiped the floor with your asses and went on to win a title.

Whatever. All the heartbreaking losses (sup Duke in 1990?) eventually came to an end. Twice.

And you?

[King Crimson]

Big day on the boards for Mizzou fan, both Matt Davison and Tyus Edney.

TinC: thanks for the correction on the M&M boys, and Maxwell was apparently fined 500,000 for knowingly infecting some ho with herpes. that's class stuff.

of course you like Tony Roberts...

[Tony Roberts voice]....and a 3 YARD GAIN FOR THE IRISH![/Tony Roberts voice]

[War Wagon]

Hell, we're just hoping to make the tourney again.

Big conference road win last night after almost blowing a 20 point lead. If they would have lost that game, my descent into utter depression would've been immediate.

And what makes you think that UCunt team would've beaten Mizzou? We only lost by one point, douchenozzle.

[King Crimson]

Hell, we're just hoping to make the tourney again.

Big conference road win last night after almost blowing a 20 point lead. If they would have lost that game, my descent into utter depression would've been immediate.

that was a big W for you guys, because you will have the numerical win advantage over ATM and OSU as far as conference wins with doubles against ISU, CU, KSU etc.

i think MU has a better than decent chance to make the NCAA, and this is not a great year for the Big XII.

[ucantdoitdoggieSTyle2]

And what makes you think that UCunt team would've beaten Mizzou? We only lost by one point, douchenozzle.

Let's play make-believe, Kansas City-syle...

UConn lost to UCLA by 6, therefore Mizzou would have beaten the Huskies by 5, right bitch?

.
.
.
.

The reality is, your shit school has zero titles. Embrace the hate, Wags.

[War Wagon]

The actual reality is that you made an absurd presumption.... bitch.

[Screw_Michigan]

I watched a lot of SEC basketball last year in my waining days in South Bend because once the Big 11 went to the Big 11 Network and took the games off local tv, the local station picked up the Raycom and JP SEC games. And last year, the SEC did pretty deece, so there were a lot of good games on.

I figured it comes down to this: Football is a lot more entertaining when you're a fifth and a 12 pack deep. Basketball, not so much, everything just seems like guys running around on a court. At least in football, you still get to watch guys get knocked the fuck out. So when the game starts at 7 p.m. and SEC fan has been drinking non-stop since 7 a.m., there's still a lot to take in. Basketball, eh, not so much.

[Degenerate]

Lost to Duke in the semis, who in turn lost to Arkansas. UF had a ten-point second half lead in that game, IIRC, then Duke put the clamps down on them and probably drew a million charging calls.

That was a sweet UF team. Damaetri Hill was the center with a sweet short jump shot. Sorty of like a poor man's Kevin Duckworth.

I hate you...

See.

That was the year Donyell Marshall got fouled as time expired in regulation with the score tied. All that useless fucker had to do was hit one of two free throws and game over... UConn beats Fla and onto the Elite 8.

But no, he clanks both of 'em and UConn loses in OT.

UConn's 93-94 and 94-95 ( lost to eventual champ UCLA 102-96 in the Elite 8 ) teams were both good enough to win it all. I thought...

I was a fan of the '94-''95 UConn team. Straight up gunners who would run for 40 minutes. Donny Marshall was Rip Hamilton before Rip Hamilton.

Somewhere in my stack of tapes are the UConn-UCLA game and the Sweet 16 UConn-Maryland game. I was big on that Maryland team Joe Smith-Keith Booth) to go deep in the tournament. They tried to run with the Huskies but ran out of gas. I looked it up. UConn never scored less than 96 points in any of its four games in that tournament.

[Terry in Crapchester]

TinC: thanks for the correction on the M&M boys, and Maxwell was apparently fined 500,000 for knowingly infecting some ho with herpes. that's class stuff.

of course you like Tony Roberts...

[Tony Roberts voice]....and a 3 YARD GAIN FOR THE IRISH![/Tony Roberts voice]

Tony Roberts was/is a homer, but he has a classic voice for football on the radio.

No offense to Don Criqui, a fellow ND alum and U&R homey, as well as a talented broadcaster in his own right, but Tony Roberts is what ND football should sound like.

[ucantdoitdoggieSTyle2]

I was a fan of the '94-''95 UConn team. Straight up gunners who would run for 40 minutes. Donny Marshall was Rip Hamilton before Rip Hamilton.

Except that Donny was a true 3 and probably a little bit faster. He lacked the true talent that Rip had to be effective at the next level, but you'd never outwork or outhustle the man. Ever.

Rack your memory, btw. Those were fun Huskies teams. If you ask Calhoun... to this day, he'll tell you that UConn didn't lose to UCLA that day, they'd just got outscored. To your point, he has said repeatedly, if the game lasted 10 more minutes, UConn would have ran them off the floor.

Donny works for the local Comcast Sportsnet channel pimping the Celtics. Not that you care... but FYI just the same.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

The SEC is fucking deplorable. One team in the top 25, and that team is hanging by a thread at #24 this week. They'll be lucky to get more than 3 teams in the tournament.

[Terry in Crapchester]

The SEC is fucking deplorable. One team in the top 25, and that team is hanging by a thread at #24 this week. They'll be lucky to get more than 3 teams in the tournament.

And yet, Arkansas beat Oklahoma and Texas but can't win a game in the SEC. Saturday, Auburn pounded the shit outta the Hogs at Arkansas!

So maybe the SEC is the best conference on earth?!?!

:wink:

Tongue in cheek notwithstanding, I'm not sure we should be using wins over Texas as any sort of measuring stick this season.

After all, ND beat Texas, and ND will be lucky to finish in the top half of the Big East this season.

Or maybe the Big East is just a meatgrinder. :wink:

[Terry in Crapchester]

Damn, Terry. Notre Dame's pertty darn good this year.

Maybe, but they're still not as good as I'd like them to be. I'm a child of the 70's. I remember ending UCLA's record 88-game winning streak, seven Sweet 16 appearances in eight years, a Final Four, etc . . .

It never ceases to frustrate me that we can't get back to that level.

The Big East is a meatgrinder.

We agree on that.

[SunCoastSooner]

The SEC is fucking deplorable. One team in the top 25, and that team is hanging by a thread at #24 this week. They'll be lucky to get more than 3 teams in the tournament.

And yet, Arkansas beat Oklahoma and Texas but can't win a game in the SEC. Saturday, Auburn pounded the shit outta the Hogs at Arkansas!

So maybe the SEC is the best conference on earth?!?!

:wink:

Did you watch either the Texas or OU vs. Arkansas games? Both OU and Texas played the first 30 minutes experimenting with line ups on the road in a hostile environment getting ready for conference play. Nothing more and nothing less. Play either of those games, even in Fayetteville, again after January 15th and the Hogs get blown out by double digits. Hell Abrams only played for 28 minutes in Texas' loss, and Omar Leary damn near pulled 10 minutes of PT in the OU loss along with Ryan Wright logging almost 10 minutes as well; with Patillo still sitting out until January. OU and Texas both used the Arkansas match up as a barometer for upcoming conference play and paid for it in the loss category. There isn't a person who regurarly watches college basketball that doesn't recognize that either OU or Texas would run roughshod through the SEC. Both teams are looking like locks as top 3 seeds (Oklahoma a possible #1 or the first #2 seed) come tourny time. Hell if Oklahoma's guard play continues its steady rise with true freshman Willie Warren averaging Double digits and Autin Johnson and Tony Crocker knocking down the three as consistantly as they have the last 2 weeks they could be a real national title threat with Blake Griffen a virtual lock for a double double every night. I am really psyched about the prospects of a tourny run for the Sooners this season.

[War Wagon]

There isn't a person who regurarly watches college basketball that doesn't recognize that either OU or Texas would run roughshod through the SEC.

Word.

Hell, Mizzou would run roughshod thru the SEC.... and the PAC 10 for that matter.

[King Crimson]

Tony Roberts was/is a homer, but he has a classic voice for football on the radio.

no doubt about it.

[King Crimson]

the greatest radio combo of all-time was Wimp Sanderson and Chuck Cooperstein....on (here you go RF) on Westwood One.

Wimp used to have a show with Sonny Smith (ex-Auburn coach) on WJOX in B'ham. When I worked in that area, I caught it as often as possible. They were funny as shit together.

i hear you. Wimp as a radio analyst (for some reason, he and Cooperstein did the Big XII tournament final a couple times)....you could tell he was a big fan of an occasional and well-timed good, hard foul.

similarly, in the early days of sports talk radio in Denver (I'm pretty much sports talk free these days, going on 2 years or so...)....Doug Moe had a show that was hilarious. Truly hilarious. telling stories about the disco white bib overalls that Larry Brown used to wear and the ABA in the 70's. Classic stuff.

[King Crimson]

Maybe, but they're still not as good as I'd like them to be. I'm a child of the 70's. I remember ending UCLA's record 88-game winning streak, seven Sweet 16 appearances in eight years, a Final Four, etc . . .

It never ceases to frustrate me that we can't get back to that level.

it never ceases to amaze me how Digger Phelps was ever good at anything except maybe being drunk (his first few years on ESPN, serious) or saying stupid things...least of all coaching basketball and having that kind of success (how many sweet 16's were in the 32 team conference era?). Oklahoma is beating Texas by 11 at halftime, Damion James has 2 points and has been benched and Digger says OU has no match for UT's inside game. ????

He's a terrible analyst and from what Stacey Dales says off the record around Norman, a complete scumbag.

The Big East is a meatgrinder.

We agree on that.

the BE is a meatgrinder, but it's also ridiculous.....16 team ad hoc conference. too big. I can't really take it seriously when the ESPN cronies are huffing the paint thinner about "9 teams" in the NCAA. 9 of 16, OK. the Big 8 sent 5 out of 8 once...

[ucantdoitdoggieSTyle2]

I know the SEC sucks right now. Bad.

The Big 12 isn't much better. Outside of Oklahoma and maybe Tejas, the rest of the conference is sketchy. Especially the supposedly decent teams like Baylor who've gotten housed in all 3 games against quality opponents. Kansas has 4 shitty losses (including one to UMass for chrissakes and they haven't played Tex or Okl yet.) Mizzou? Bitch please. They lost to fucking Nebraska and haven't played a tough game in conf yet and their OOC schedule reads likes a fucking DIV II handbook. Real tough games against Prarie View, Oral Roberts, Pine Bluff, and Stetson. Stetson? When your school is named after some shitty fucking cologne, you know you're a fucking a joke.

Granted, UConn loads up on in-state cake walks too... however, our OOC has the Paradise Jam... which we won.. and games agaisnt Mich and Gonzaga. Too bad Mich sucks ass, I am sure it looked like a decent game when it was scheduled. With upcoming games against Pitt (twice), Syracuse, and Louisville, we'll have a Top 10 SOS and be battle tested come tournament time.

Both the SEC and "Big" 12 can eat shit, bitches....

[War Wagon]

Mizzou? Bitch please. They lost to fucking Nebraska and haven't played a tough game in conf yet and their OOC schedule reads likes a fucking DIV II handbook. Real tough games against Prarie View, Oral Roberts, Pine Bluff, and Stetson.
....

The Nebraska loss was horrible but that's a conference roadie and shit happens. Illinois took them to school, but that's nothing new. Their only other loss was to a quality Xavier team, a game they led by 7 points late but gave away because they couldn't hit free throws.

I see you conveniently neglected to mention quality OOC wins against Cal, USC, and Georgia.

[ucantdoitdoggieSTyle2]

I see you conveniently neglected to mention quality OOC wins against Cal, USC, and Georgia.

The Pac 10 sucks and Georgia has a losing fucking record. You want quality wins... next time schedule Aqua Velva, Old Spice, and Brut.


Stetson? Dude.....

[War Wagon]

Cal's ranked...

aw fuck it... as I type this, Mizzou is down 13 at the half to KansasShittyState.

Uncle.

[ucantdoitdoggieSTyle2]

Uncle.

Don't mind me, bro. I am sure you'll make the tournament and stuff.

Besides, I really just wanted to work in the the Brut and Aqua Velva line...

[SunCoastSooner]

I know the SEC sucks right now. Bad.

The Big 12 isn't much better. Outside of Oklahoma and maybe Tejas, the rest of the conference is sketchy. Especially the supposedly decent teams like Baylor who've gotten housed in all 3 games against quality opponents. Kansas has 4 shitty losses (including one to UMass for chrissakes and they haven't played Tex or Okl yet.) Mizzou? Bitch please. They lost to fucking Nebraska and haven't played a tough game in conf yet and their OOC schedule reads likes a fucking DIV II handbook. Real tough games against Prarie View, Oral Roberts, Pine Bluff, and Stetson. Stetson? When your school is named after some shitty fucking cologne, you know you're a fucking a joke.

Granted, UConn loads up on in-state cake walks too... however, our OOC has the Paradise Jam... which we won.. and games agaisnt Mich and Gonzaga. Too bad Mich sucks ass, I am sure it looked like a decent game when it was scheduled. With upcoming games against Pitt (twice), Syracuse, and Louisville, we'll have a Top 10 SOS and be battle tested come tournament time.

Both the SEC and "Big" 12 can eat shit, bitches....

Hell yopu can scratch texass off that list as well... down 14 in the second half at home is pathetic.

[Terry in Crapchester]

Maybe, but they're still not as good as I'd like them to be. I'm a child of the 70's. I remember ending UCLA's record 88-game winning streak, seven Sweet 16 appearances in eight years, a Final Four, etc . . .

It never ceases to frustrate me that we can't get back to that level.

it never ceases to amaze me how Digger Phelps was ever good at anything except maybe being drunk (his first few years on ESPN, serious) or saying stupid things...least of all coaching basketball and having that kind of success (how many sweet 16's were in the 32 team conference era?).

That entire run was during the 48-team NCAA field. In fairness, the Selection Committee didn't start seeding teams until 1979, so prior to that it was at least theoretically possible that you could wind up with an unduly favorable draw, get a first-round bye and then face off against the winner between two relatively weak teams for a spot in the Sweet 16. OTOH, you could also get an unduly harsh draw.

Imho, a number of factors came into play when it came to Digger's success. One was the way the NCAA tournament selected its teams. IIRC, for a time the selection committee would only take the champion of each conference. That, of course, was a huge benefit to ND, which was independent in basketball at the time. During the 80's, that tide turned, however, as the tournament selection committee began to favor conferences. ND stayed independent in basketball too long, to the detriment of the program.

Digger also benefitted from a pipeline his predecessor, Johnny Dee, had established to the Washington, D.C. area. Digger was able to bring in some pretty talented players over the years from that area.

Digger also was a coach of a different era. He wouldn't coach well in today's game. He was a bit of an old-school disciplinarian, and I don't think he'd relate well to today's players. He also had a tendency to overcoach, which would hurt him more in today's game than it did when he was coaching. For most of Digger's coaching career, there was no shot clock (and don't even get me started on the 3-point FG; Digger proudly said that any player who took a 3-point shot would immediately get a seat next to him on the bench, even if he made the shot. Ironic, in light of that, that many of Brey's teams have lived and died with the three, although that's a topic for another thread.)

Digger once said, famously, that no coach should stay at a school more than ten years. Sadly, he didn't take his own advice. The first decade of Digger's coaching career was the most successful decade in the history of Notre Dame basketball. The second, not so much.

He's a terrible analyst and from what Stacey Dales says off the record around Norman, a complete scumbag.

He was known as something of a hardass at ND, and of course, arrogant. I've heard some of the other rumors recently. But those were muted when I was at ND, perhaps out of concern for his daughter (a year behind me as a student at ND) and his wife (at the time, a professor at ND's law school).

The Big East is a meatgrinder.

We agree on that.

the BE is a meatgrinder, but it's also ridiculous.....16 team ad hoc conference. too big. I can't really take it seriously when the ESPN cronies are huffing the paint thinner about "9 teams" in the NCAA. 9 of 16, OK. the Big 8 sent 5 out of 8 once...

I get where you're coming from, but there are a number of factors at work here. For starters, the Big East did not start out as a football conference, and became one only to guarantee its long-term survival in the early 90's. Then there was the raid by the ACC in 2003, which required replacing the lost teams in light of changing NCAA rules. The Big East also added DePaul and Marquette to sweeten the deal for the C-USA schools that played football, and also to make sure ND stayed in the fold. That's how you wound up at 16.

The Big East lost some credibility when the first conference schedules after 2005 were 16-game schedules that involved each team skipping two conference opponents each year. That made it more a loose conglomeration than a true conference, and had drastic effects on strength of schedule for the various members. Going to an 18-game conference schedule helped a little, imho, in that each team now has at least one game against every other team in the conference.

I've heard rumors of either a split along football/non-football lines, or a reduction of up to four teams (most likely candidates would be DePaul, Marquette, Providence and Seton Hall), but I'm not sure either will happen.

[Screw_Michigan]

The biggest thing holding ND back is Brey is too reliant on offense and living and dying by the 3. When is the last time ND had a team capable of relying on physical play to win games on the galss and with defense? Sure, his teams can light it up on the boards, but in low scoring games and against teams like Pitt that will beat you down in a bare-knuckle brawl, ND folds like a paper tent. See: Getting beat 80-40 by Wazzu in the second round last season. This isn't the teams of the mid 00's that was missing the tournament every year, but even with the steps they've made, it just seems like they have hit the ceiling.

[Screw_Michigan]

And regarding Digger, I've posted this story here before, but I have a friend who used to fly charter flights for a company in Oakland County, Mich., and he had to fly Digger from South Bend to Oakland County to speak at some dinner. On the way back, Digger got on the flight eight sheets to the wind, was belligerent and nasty to the two pilots because the beers they had on the plan not only were the ones he asked for (probably B-), but that they weren't twist-offs and they didn't have a bottle opener. My friend then twisted off the bottle cap for him. Dude did nothing but bitch and whine the entire flight back to SB. No wonder he's good friend with BK (Sup, Shine? 0-8 in Big 11?).

[Terry in Crapchester]

The biggest thing holding ND back is Brey is too reliant on offense and living and dying by the 3. When is the last time ND had a team capable of relying on physical play to win games on the galss and with defense? Sure, his teams can light it up on the boards, but in low scoring games and against teams like Pitt that will beat you down in a bare-knuckle brawl, ND folds like a paper tent. See: Getting beat 80-40 by Wazzu in the second round last season. This isn't the teams of the mid 00's that was missing the tournament every year, but even with the steps they've made, it just seems like they have hit the ceiling.

This is exactly the point I've been making for a few years now. Another drawback to Brey's preferred style of play is that, eventually, you'll reach a night when the shots just won't fall for you. Depending on circumstances, that could mean a blowout loss against a quality opponent (see Washington State in last year's NCAA tournament) or a loss to a less-talented team you should beat.

Granted, Harangody provides an offensive presence inside which at least eases some of the pressure on the perimeter game. But Harangody is small for a post player (rumor is that he's closer to 6'6" than to his listed height of 6'8"), and while he's not a horrible athlete, he's not the most athletic guy ever to play the post, either. That combination means that he's relatively ineffective as a defensive presence inside. Francis could have been the total package as a post player, but a series of nagging injuries limited him to a shell of his capability had he remained healthy. Beyond that, you'd have to go back to Ryan Humphrey for the last post player at ND who was anything more than a role player.

An additional problem facing ND this season is depth. We only go 7-deep, and Brey is looking for at least 38 minutes a game each from Jackson, McAlarney and Harangody. Come mid-March, I'm afraid they won't have enough left in the tank for anything approaching an extended run in the NCAA tournament.

Right now, this is looking like another season with a 5-8 seed in the NCAA tournament and a second-round exit in the tourney. I hope I'm wrong, but if that's the case, our coach next year ought not to be wearing mock turtlenecks.