T1B

HighPlainsGrifter wrote: ↑Sat May 03, 2025 9:56 pm

Mikey wrote: ↑Sat May 03, 2025 7:17 pm You load sixteen tons, what do you get?
Another day older and deeper in debt
Saint Peter, don't you call me, 'cause I can't go
I owe my soul to HPG's store

Excellent.

cc: Tune Town

good reference Mikey!

Roux wrote: ↑Sat May 03, 2025 4:25 pm

d-townmike wrote: ↑Sat May 03, 2025 2:53 pm

Roux wrote: ↑Sat May 03, 2025 2:50 pm


Just wondering, what specific duties of pastor and elder are impossible for a woman to do, but a man can do?

It's not about ability. It's about following scripture.

Scripture alone, grace alone, faith alone, Christ alone.

Which Scripture are you referring to?

These are two primary passages which are used to support the view that only men can be pastors and/or elders.


1 Timothy 2:8-14
8 I desire then that in every place the men should pray, lifting holy hands without anger or quarreling;
9 likewise also that women should adorn themselves in respectable apparel, with modesty and self-control, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly attire,
10 but with what is proper for women who profess godliness—with good works.
11 Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness.
12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.
13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve;
14 and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor.
15 Yet she will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith and love and holiness, with self-control.


1 Corinthians 14:33-35
33 For God is not a God of confusion but of peace. As in all the churches of the saints,
34 the women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says.
35 If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church.



The strongest case, imo, is presented in the 1 Timothy passage, because Paul is tying the respective roles of women and men in the church to the original sin, and that fundamentally, the woman was deceived, and not the man.
He appears to be drawing a distinction between the "weaker" female and the man, and that because the woman is the weaker vessel, she should not teach or exercise authority over a man.

I wrote a paper about this in seminary.
I presented the case that neither of these passages actually prohibit a woman from being a pastor, because when you look at the larger context of what is written, the context of the culture at that time, and the overall context of what the Bible is about, the picture is much different.

My professor did not like my paper.

Those who have the view that only men can be pastors and/or elders, will most likely never be moved from their view.

It is an interesting topic.

Well, right, it is bullshit then being cherry picked to reach the wanted conclusion.

In the very same passage that you cite is this:

women should adorn themselves in respectable apparel, with modesty and self-control, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly attire,

and I'm quite sure that in your church you will have women with braided hair, gold, pearls, and costly attire. But not a peep about that.

It is just reading the Bible to justify what you want it to say, and ignoring the parts that don't quite fit the wanted result.

And as the father of four wonderful daughters, any attempt at making them less than equal is bullshit, and I will call it out.

Roux wrote: ↑Sun May 04, 2025 12:18 am Well, right, it is bullshit then being cherry picked to reach the wanted conclusion.

In the very same passage that you cite is this:

women should adorn themselves in respectable apparel, with modesty and self-control, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly attire,

and I'm quite sure that in your church you will have women with braided hair, gold, pearls, and costly attire. But not a peep about that.

It is just reading the Bible to justify what you want it to say, and ignoring the parts that don't quite fit the wanted result.

And as the father of four wonderful daughters, any attempt at making them less than equal is bullshit, and I will call it out.

Roux wrote: ↑Sat May 03, 2025 4:25 pm

d-townmike wrote: ↑Sat May 03, 2025 2:53 pm

Roux wrote: ↑Sat May 03, 2025 2:50 pm


Just wondering, what specific duties of pastor and elder are impossible for a woman to do, but a man can do?

It's not about ability. It's about following scripture.

Scripture alone, grace alone, faith alone, Christ alone.

Which Scripture are you referring to?

The Bible does prohibit women from pastoring and preaching. In fact 1 Timothy 2:11–14 as well as 1 Timothy 3:1-7 and Titus 1:5-9, Scripture forbids this. It was a temptation then as it is now, and it is a sin just the same. All of 1 Timothy chapter 2 addresses this but it's specific in verses 11-14.

It's not an issue of ability or discrimination. It is an issue of biblical interpretation and it's very clear God inspired the words of Paul's letter to prohibit women from being pastors.

HighPlainsGrifter wrote: ↑Sat May 03, 2025 4:35 pm The Missouri Synod sounds very Calvinist, yes?

Absolutely not. https://www.lcms.org/about/beliefs/faqs/denominations

d-townmike wrote: ↑Sun May 04, 2025 12:41 am it's very clear

And it is equally as clear, if not moreso that

women should adorn themselves in respectable apparel, with modesty and self-control, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly attire,

And I bet your wife has braided her hair, has worn gold, pearls, and costly attire. As have all the other women who attend the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod.

Same Scripture. Follow what you want and ignore the rest.

Which, hey, if that's what you want to do, no problem. Really.

Just don't try to force inequality on the rest of us.

HighPlainsGrifter wrote: ↑Sat May 03, 2025 9:56 pm

Mikey wrote: ↑Sat May 03, 2025 7:17 pm You load sixteen tons, what do you get?
Another day older and deeper in debt
Saint Peter, don't you call me, 'cause I can't go
I owe my soul to HPG's store

Excellent.

2st

I miss lyrics smack. Nobody cares, anymore...

HighPlainsGrifter wrote: ↑Tue Apr 22, 2025 1:32 am 1. Allow... no Encourage Priests to marry.
It was a failed experiment from inception and has only gotten more ridiculous. The rule has stopped exactly ZERO Priests from blowing a load.
Monogamy, not celibacy.

I assume that all you well versed Christians are aware that

Me and Mary…Magdalene,
We had a thing going on.
We both knew it was wrong.
But it was much too strong to let it go.