So what does the future hold for PSU?

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

Take away 30 scholarships (at 10 a year), give them 4 years of probation and a 2 year bowl ban for every kid Sandusky diddled in the shower.
fair is fair

Fairness to the readers here would be putting your dumb ass on probation for lack of intellectual control.

[PSUFAN]

PSUFan, so, because the NCAA's rules and regulations committee didn't have the foresight to forbid child rape and the resulting cover-ups by that university's administration, they shouldn't have the power to punish a university for committing those acts? Did they really need to state that those are no-no's? Is that your argument?

Do you honestly think that's my argument? Did Annie get control of your password again?

Why would an athletic association obtain or even seek jurisdiction over things that our local, state, and federal judicial system currently handle? What would be the point of that?

Sandusky's crimes are not NCAA violations, they are straight-up crimes. I'm glad to be able to clarify that for you, since it was needful.

Look - the Sandusky Affair is not out there as some mechanism for you to put USC's violations into a broader perspective. Those kids were not abused so that we all would be more philosophical about USC paying players. The heinous crimes perpetrated by the monstrous Sandusky are not in any way comparable to NCAA violations (read How USC Rolls). They can only be addressed by the most serious and capable judicial system in the land...that is, NOT the athletic association that has to be shamed into keeping USC within the rules every decade or so.

Hell - you really want Sandusky to be slapped on the wrist like he committed some USC style NCAA violation? Strange, so strange...

[Van]

PSUFan, so, because the NCAA's rules and regulations committee didn't have the foresight to forbid child rape and the resulting cover-ups by that university's administration, they shouldn't have the power to punish a university for committing those acts? Did they really need to state that those are no-no's? Is that your argument?

Do you honestly think that's my argument?

Of course I do. Why wouldn't I? That's specifically what you wrote, right here...

Did anything that took place at PSU amount to an NCAA violation?

How else can that be taken, especially in light of this...

That's the question that has yet to be answered finally. I don't believe anything has been brought forward.

Your argument is crystal clear. You're not convinced that PSU committed any NCAA violations!



"Hey, the NCAA didn't specifically forbid child-rape and subsequent cover-ups by university coaches and administrators, so Penn St may be in the clear as far as the NCAA goes."

If you think there is any other logical way to interpret what you wrote, I'd love to hear it.

Did Annie get control of your password again?

Again? When has she ever gotten control of it before?

Wow. It's not like you to take such a lame cheapshot. I guess you must really be gripping over how badly you screwed the pooch on this one.

Why would an athletic association obtain or even seek jurisdiction over things that our local, state, and federal judicial system currently handle? What would be the point of that?

You cannot be serious.

Local, state. and federal judicial systems may go after the individuals involved insofar as levying criminal charges against them. What they can't do is put the Penn St football program on TV/conference championship/bowl game probation or eliminate scholarships from them. Only the NCAA or Penn St themselves can do that, and since it sure appears that Penn St isn't going to shithammer themselves it becomes incumbent on the NCAA to do so.

Sandusky's crimes are not NCAA violations, they are straight-up crimes. I'm glad to be able to clarify that for you, since it was needful.

Are you saying they are not also NCAA violations, just because the NCAA never felt the need to include specific language forbidding child-rape and administration cover-ups? And please don't even pretend to act like Sandusky is the only one who was guilty in all of this. There may have never existed a more clear-cut example of rampant LOIC involving a football program and university administration.

The police can't go after Joe Pa now for his role in the cover-up, can they? So, now what? All the people behind the cover-up either die of natural causes or get fired, and that's it? The NCAA is powerless to punish the university and the football program for such an obvious LOIC?

Hell - you really want Sandusky to be slapped on the wrist like he committed some USC style NCAA violation? Strange, so strange...

Of course not, and to put such words into my mouth is asinine. I literally quoted your crazy NCAA stance. You can't find anything I've said that could possibly be construed as my saying Sandusky should only be hit with sanctions by the NCAA.

What I am saying is that in addition to whatever criminal penalties are metted out by the judicial system, the university also ought to be hit hard by the NCAA for their role in attempting to cover up and protect Joe Pa's oh-so-sacred football program. Bare minimum, Penn St sure as hell didn't self-report these violations to the NCAA; quite to the contrary, they went out of their way to make sure the NCAA never learned of them.

How did that work out for Jim Tressell? Christ, what he did and what he covered up wasn't even a drop in the bucket compared to the things the PSU coaching staff and administration attempted to keep the NCAA (as well as law enforcement) from discovering.

[War Wagon]

It's not like you to take such a lame cheap shot.

Sure it is.

[Van]

Not in my experience, it hasn't been. PSUFan has always been 100% pure class in our interractions. For him to trot out the Annie card, and especially to include "again," as if there is any history of someone using my password, was unbelievable to me.

[War Wagon]

Class? This is the guy who dropped his shit stained drawers for all to admire. By that measure, AP has class.

I wouldn't worry about it. He'll skulk off into the shadows for another 6 months and won't be missed.

[Van]

I'm not the least bit worried about it. Like I said, I simply chalked it up to his total screwing of the pooch on this one. For him to say that a university administration's cover-up of continued child-rape may not constitute an NCAA violation is a bridge so far, I think he just shit himself.

[PSUFAN]

unbelievable to me

[PSUFAN]

Please explain to me what NCAA violations PSU has committed - or why the NCAA would have jurisdiction in criminal or civil matters.

If these emails are indeed the smoking gun for the PSU Four (as they do appear to be) - then the three that are alive need to be charged with crimes and prosecuted.

I'll still need you to show me exactly what that has to do with the 2012 football program, or even with the current PSU administration.

[Van]

unbelievable to me

What are you laughing at? Until today, you've never accused me of giving my password out so that someone else could post under my nic. You've long been an Admin here, so you know better.

You're making zero sense.

[PSUFAN]

So, now what? All the people behind the cover-up either die of natural causes or get fired, and that's it? The NCAA is powerless to punish the university and the football program for such an obvious LOIC?

Again - in all cases where LOIC was used to bring sanctions, NCAA violations were involved. the Sandusky Affair is WORSE than NCAA violations.

In your average, every day USC violation scenario, a player is soaked in money and prizes - those things are NCAA violations, but the player just gives back his heisman gear, shrugs, and signs an NFL contract.

In the Sandusky Affair, people will be heading off to jail for long sentences (hopefully)...and the cancerous leadership that enabled this is swept away and entirely replaced - and the overwhelming majority of the PSU community that had absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with these crimes endeavors to lead the charge against child abuse.

At USC, another day, another violation...eliciting yawns, shrugs, and once in a great while...a winking reaction from the NCAA. BFD, eh?

The PSU community has undergone a great deal of soul-searching, and the result of that is a willingness to lead the charge against abuse.

Back at USC, when the community can actually be discerned, surely one may note a determination to steer the program away from the violations that have come to define it over the many years...right? Right?

Yeah, right.

[PSUFAN]

unbelievable to me

What are you laughing at? Until today, you've never accused me of giving my password out so that someone else could post under my nic. You've long been an Admin here, so you know better.

You're making zero sense.

It would be cool if this was only about something as trivial as some Anniesmack...so, just stop it. If it helps, I retract it as some meaningless banter. There is no accusation, no need to linger lovingly over that part of the conversation.

Get to the meat, Van...go!

[Van]

Please explain to me what NCAA violations PSU has committed

I just did, at great length.

- or why the NCAA would have jurisdiction in criminal or civil matters.

They wouldn't, but they sure as hell have jurisdiction over the Penn St football program and the university administrators who are in charge of overseeing that football program. Intentionally withholding NCAA violations is considered a punishable offense by the NCAA, and Penn St's coaching staff and administration clearly went out of their way to withhold information not just from the NCAA but also from law enforcement.

The justice system takes care of the criminal charges. The NCAA punishes the university for rampant LOIC. How are you not understanding this?

If these emails are indeed the smoking gun for the PSU Four (as they do appear to be) - then the three that are alive need to be charged with crimes and prosecuted.

Obviously. Then the NCAA needs to levy penalties against Penn St for the violations of those coaches and administrators who participated in the cover-up, since their actions were the very definition of 'LOIC.'

I'll still need you to show me exactly what that has to do with the 2012 football program, or even with the current PSU administration.

What does Matt Barkley have to do with Reggie Bush and the 2005 USC Trojans? Nothing, yet he and members of a multitude of other USC football classes are paying the price for the violations of one guy who played for USC seven years ago. The same principle of punishment should hold true in Penn St's case, only to a much stronger degree since PSU's misdeeds went on for much longer and they included multiple coaches and administrative personnel.

[PSUFAN]

All I'm hearing from you is that the Sandusky Affair is so big that they should punish the football program also - despite the total lack of NCAA violations.

And in all seriousness, having given this lots of thought for months, I say you're wrong. Football is exactly what PSU should be doing, and doing better than ever under new leadership.

Again, think of the victims. What does punishing the football program do for them, specifically? Amid the final games of the 2011 season, post-scandal, football games served as backdrop for one of the most successful funding campaigns ever for abuse advocacy groups in Pennsylvania.

Football games are what bring the PSU community together, and when that happens, good things happen. Yes, the Four enablers should be denounced. The vast majority of the PSU that had nothing whatsoever with this have worked to move ahead, and to make a difference for the victims and in the support of advocacy and services.

Really, I ask you - what exactly would be achieved by shutting PSU Football down, as there have been no USC-style NCAA violations? As there has not been any reason to do so? Again - is this Affair out there just to make USC's rulebreaking seem the less illicit? I'm not sure that really does anything.

[PSUFAN]

they sure as hell have jurisdiction over the Penn St football program and the university administrators who are in charge of overseeing that football program.

The NCAA has jurisdiction over university administrators? Interesting contention.

[Van]

they sure as hell have jurisdiction over the Penn St football program and the university administrators who are in charge of overseeing that football program.
The NCAA has jurisdiction over university administrators? Interesting contention.

Over the football program that those administrators put on the field? You bet your ass they do. They can say, "No, PSU administrators, we will not allow you to continue to fill your coffers via a football program that you let run amok for over a decade. Because of what the PSU leadership allowed to go on here for so long in lieu of protecting your sacred football program, we are hereby levying these penalties on your football program for LOIC violations. Hopefully after missing a decade's worth of bowl games and TV appearances you might think twice next time when assessing your university's priorities. See you in 2023."

[SoCalTrjn]

I'll still need you to show me exactly what that has to do with the 2012 football program, or even with the current PSU administration.

What did Reggie Bush's parents living rent free for 8 months in 2005 have to do with the end of the 2004 season and the bowl game 4 months before they moved in to that house? What does Reggie Bush's step dad taking money from an agent to talk his step son in to leaving USC a year early (in 2005) have to do with any USC team after the 2005 team?
USC was never charged with providing a single cent to the player, they were charged with not knowing that a players step dad was being bribed by an ex con to get his step son to leave school early.
If "not knowing" is worth the penalty USC received, what is "knowing and blatantly trying to cover it up while it continues to happen and rack up victims" worth?
The PSU case is a much easier case to make for a lack of institutional control than anything that ever occurred at USC.

[PSUFAN]

they sure as hell have jurisdiction over the Penn St football program and the university administrators who are in charge of overseeing that football program.
The NCAA has jurisdiction over university administrators? Interesting contention.

Over the football program that those administrators put on the field? You bet your ass they do. They can say, "No, PSU administrators, we will not allow you to continue to fill your coffers via a football program that you let run amok for over a decade. Because of what the PSU leadership allowed to go on here for so long in lieu of protecting your sacred football program, we are hereby levying these penalties on your football program for LOIC violations. Hopefully after missing a decade's worth of bowl games and TV appearances you might think twice next time when assessing your university's priorities. See you in 2023."

You're still asking them to jump out of their jurisdiction to make that call - which we both know is not going to happen. Also, your example has them addressing administrators that are no longer with the university and who are facing far more serious charges.

Sorry, I'm still at the point where it seems like you're comparing PSU's situation with USC's, and they are very different. USC earned their NCAA sanctions, regardless of what happened at PSU.

[Van]

All I'm hearing from you is that the Sandusky Affair is so big that they should punish the football program also - despite the total lack of NCAA violations.

There were an abundance of NCAA violations, irrefutable LOIC being chief among them.

And yes, they should punish the football program for it, because it was a football assistant coach, another guy (McQueary) who went on to become an assistant coach, and Joe Pa, the face of the football program and thus the university, who were behind the cover-up. On top of those three, you had administration higher-ups who chose to withhold info from the NCAA in lieu of protecting the football program.

And in all seriousness, having given this lots of thought for months, I say you're wrong. Football is exactly what PSU should be doing, and doing better than ever under new leadership.

Sure...while operating under crushing NCAA sanctions, which is the very least they deserve.

Again, think of the victims.

~barf~

Those bazillion PSU supporters who conducted those candlelight vigils? Those were for...wait for it...Joe Pa! HE was the one who Nittany Lion Nation treated as a poor victim. Meanwhile, some guy named Morty stood at the back of the crowd, mumbling to himself, "Ummmm, people? The guy you're supporting here is responsible for covering up OVER A DECADE'S WORTH OF CHILD-RAPE! THINK MAYBE WE OUGHT TO BE A LITTLE MORE CONCERNED WITH THE REAL VICTIMS THAN WITH WHETHER JOE PA IS GETTING A FAIR SHAKE FROM ESPN?"

What does punishing the football program do for them, specifically?

It tells them that the university responsible for the cover-up was held accountable by the NCAA. Not that they'd really care, since they're still rape victims, thanks to the PSU football program/administration.

Amid the final games of the 2011 season, post-scandal, football games served as backdrop for one of the most successful funding campaigns ever for abuse advocacy groups in Pennsylvania.

They also served to fill PSU's coffers, the continuance of which was the sole reason this shit was allowed to go on in the first place.

Really, I ask you - what exactly would be achieved by shutting PSU Football down, as there have been no USC-style NCAA violations? As there has not been any reason to do so? Again - is this Affair out there just to make USC's rulebreaking seem the less illicit? I'm not sure that really does anything.

So, okay, had Pete Carroll, Lane Kiffin, Mike Garrett and the USC administration said nothing while knowing that Reggie Bush was raping people on campus, you and the NCAA wouldn't view that as the craziest example of LOIC in the history of college football?

I'm pretty sure you would. And you know what? USC would get the ever-loving fuck kicked out of them by the NCAA for it. In fact, they did, only it was merely for not making a strong enough effort to learn how one of their player's in-laws were paying their rent...never mind all that nettlesome raping stuff.

Now, seven years later, a group of players, coaches and administrators who had nothing to do with any of it are paying the price. In PSU's case, the NCAA needs to be consistent with their actions. If USC was guilty of LOIC, my god, PSU was guilty of it to a degree never imagined even in the minds of the most hardened cynics. Turning an administrative blind eye to child-rape, just to protect a football program?

Are you fucking kidding me?

[Van]

they sure as hell have jurisdiction over the Penn St football program and the university administrators who are in charge of overseeing that football program.
The NCAA has jurisdiction over university administrators? Interesting contention.

Over the football program that those administrators put on the field? You bet your ass they do. They can say, "No, PSU administrators, we will not allow you to continue to fill your coffers via a football program that you let run amok for over a decade. Because of what the PSU leadership allowed to go on here for so long in lieu of protecting your sacred football program, we are hereby levying these penalties on your football program for LOIC violations. Hopefully after missing a decade's worth of bowl games and TV appearances you might think twice next time when assessing your university's priorities. See you in 2023."

You're still asking them to jump out of their jurisdiction to make that call - which we both know is not going to happen.

I agree that it won't happen, but not because it isn't well within the NCAA's jurisdiction to impose sanctions on PSU under the LOIC umbrella.

Also, your example has them addressing administrators that are no longer with the university and who are facing far more serious charges.

So what? No one connected with L'Affair Bush was still with USC by the time those NCAA sanctions were handed down. They were imposed as a penalty for previous wrongdoing, and as a supposed deterrent to future USC administrations.

The same should hold true here. It won't, but there's no reason it shouldn't.

Sorry, I'm still at the point where it seems like you're comparing PSU's situation with USC's, and they are very different.

Of course I am. What about it? The comparison is as clear as day, and yes, they are very different. PSU's violations were infinitely worse.

USC earned their NCAA sanctions, regardless of what happened at PSU.

No, USC did not earn those sanctions. Nearly every objective source in America now agrees that the punishment handed down by the NCAA in no way fit the crime, particularly in lieu of the leniency the NCAA showed Ohio St and other programs that were found guilty of far worse violations.

Now, comparing the Reggie Bush thing to what happened at PSU? Jesus, that's like comparing the Battle of Grenada to the Battle of Stalingrad. Considering how relatively blameless the USC coaching staff and administration were in the Reggie Bush case, and the penalty USC nevertheless received, there really is nothing the NCAA could hit PSU with short of the death penalty that would ever come close to being fairly commensurate in terms of violation-to-punishment.

[M2]

Meanwhile, the Penn State forum is debating the legitimacy of the e-mails.

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=157&f=1395&t=9109183





Well, if the crime is worth a couple hundred years in jail, it's safe to say the cover up is pretty heinous.


It's an amazing and disturbing spectacle that makes me so happy not to be a Penn State fan.

A place where love of Joe Paterno as "The Lord God" ... is the norm.

[SoCalTrjn]

Paul Dee (University of Miami) said that USC should have ran a tighter ship with more over sight like Miami did and because they did not, that was why he decided to punish USC so harshly
The tight ship Dee was referring to had a booster of the school paying close to 100 players millions of dollars over multiple years while Dee was supposed to be in charge of oversight. USC had 1 player paid by people not affiliated with the program so that the player would leave the program
Grahm Spanier was asked why USC was forced to vacate the 2005 BCS title when the game was played 4 months before anyone associated with USC (Bush) ever broke a single NCAA rule. Spanier replied that taking away USCs title was the "ethical" thing to do because USC did not get rid of Bush when they discovered that he had taken illegal benefits, forget the fact that USC did not know Bush had broken the rules until after he left USC and declared for the draft early.
Spanier was part of the cover up at Penn State trying to protect Paternos legacy, so to this guy it is "ethical" to cover up raping children in the shower as well as punishing a team retro back to their last national championship regardless of when the infractions were committed.

So in the name of Spaniers "ethical justice" Penn State should be hit with a LOIC and forced to retroactively vacate every win back to 1986 when they last won a title... actually they probably should have to vacate every win they have had back to 1912 since Sandusky arrived and started fucking kids in 1969 and 1912 was the last title before his arrival.

Bobby Bowden is the winningest coach in NCAA again, Paterno has to vacate every win he and the school had to 1912

[PSUFAN]

Those bazillion PSU supporters who conducted those candlelight vigils? Those were for...wait for it...Joe Pa!

False. The rioters the night before were for Joe. The vigils were for the victims, that is beyond dispute...and they were attended by far more people. You're eager to implicate the entire PSU community in this...but that's laughable. It's pretty easy to see here that you're doing so just because your ass is chapped about USC's issues.

Worship of Paterno was never the norm for me - I feel that is well-documented here. I have always found it impossible to accept that he was unaware of the Sandusky situation. I was and remain certain that his first priority was to protect himself and his hold over the program....and given the nature of the crimes being committed, his stance was deplorable. If he wasn't a corpse now, he'd end up being charged.

You've got my stance on this - your take above brings the conversation to the level of absurdity. People nationwide are now rethinking their viewpoints on Paterno...mine has essentially remained the same.

Time will tell if the NCAA uses LOIC as a means to apply sanctions. I don't feel that this will happen - I don't think there are grounds for crippling the PSU program itself. The investigations should continue, and the enablers should be handled by the authorities - and do jail time.

[M Club]

Really, you want the NCAA to have jurisdiction over a university's legal affairs, especially after whining about the subjective punishment USC was sanctioned with?

[Mr T]

This from back in Nov 2011...
http://www.ncaa.com/news/ncaa/article/2 ... -athletics

“I am writing to notify you that the NCAA will examine Penn State’s exercise of institutional control over its intercollegiate athletics programs, as well as the actions, and inactions, of relevant responsible personnel,” Emmert wrote. “We recognize that there are ongoing federal and state investigations and the NCAA does not intend to interfere with those probes.”


Glory days well they'll pass you by
Glory days in the wink of a young boy's brown eye
Glory days, glory days

[Van]

Really, you want the NCAA to have jurisdiction over a university's legal affairs, especially after whining about the subjective punishment USC was sanctioned with?

Not at all, at least if you're referring to me. I want the NCAA to demonstrate their jurisdiction over PSU's football program, not their legal affairs.

PSUFan, now you're just spinning, and shamefully so. My issue with Penn St has to do with their systemic sheltering of a child rapist in order to protect their football kingdom. It has nothing to do with USC. My issue with the NCAA has to do with USC, and the inequities I see them applying in every case post-USC.

[Screw_Michigan]

Will you tards stop debating the merits of SC's punishment vs potential Penn State punishment? Nobody fucking cares about SC's punishment and your collective whining only diminishes the spotlight which should remain on PSU.

Please explain to me what NCAA violations PSU has committed - or why the NCAA would have jurisdiction in criminal or civil matters.

How about an athletic DEPARTMENT-WIDE CONSPIRACY to cover up felonious crimes against children to protect the revenue of a football program, plus the careers of administrators? And yes, when the head football coach, the athletic director and the president are involved, that is department-wide. I'm pretty confident in the tens of thousands of pages of NCAA bylaws, conspiracy to cover up felonious crimes is mentioned.

Again, Van is absolutely right, and PSUFAN, your spin attempts are becoming increasingly sad and embarrassing.

Again, think of the victims. What does punishing the football program do for them, specifically?

You have some serious gall to say that. Do you seriously need to have it spelled out for you?

YOU PUNISH THE FOOTBALL PROGRAM BECAUSE PROTECTING THE FOOTBALL PROGRAM AND ITS REVENUE STREAM IS THE EXACT REASON WHY THIS COVER-UP WAS CONDUCTED IN THE FIRST PLACE.

Do you really need to hear it again? And while punishing the football program may not have any immediate, tangible benefits for Sandusky's victims, it does send a LOUD and CLEAR message to any potential victims and university athletic department administrators in the future that covering up violent, felonious crimes against children will ABSOLUTELY NOT be tolerated and that any potential attempt by administrators to prevent the proper notification of law enforcement authorities of such crimes will ABSOLUTELY be prosecuted and punished by the NCAA to the furthest extent possible and that any attempts will have SEVERE FINANCIAL CONSEQUENCES, since that is all these administrators care about.

[M Club]

Really, you want the NCAA to have jurisdiction over a university's legal affairs, especially after whining about the subjective punishment USC was sanctioned with?

Not at all, at least if you're referring to me. I want the NCAA to demonstrate their jurisdiction over PSU's football program, not their legal affairs.

PSUFan, now you're just spinning, and shamefully so. My issue with Penn St has to do with their systemic sheltering of a child rapist in order to protect their football kingdom. It has nothing to do with USC. My issue with the NCAA has to do with USC, and the inequities I see them applying in every case post-USC.

You do realize the NCAA's idea of jurisdiction is "inequities [you] see them applying in every case post-USC," right? You're opening a can of worms.

Shit, I'd rather Penn State continue to play football so they have a way to afford the legal payouts coming down the pipe. I obviously don't know how that'd work but it's between money from the athletic fund, the university's endowment, or funding from the taxpayer.

[War Wagon]

Glory days well they'll pass you by
Glory days in the wink of a young boy's brown eye
Glory days, glory days

if it wasn't so sick, that'd be funny...











wait, it's still funny.

[Van]

M Club, yep, it would definitely open a can of worms, no arguments there. Still, that's a can that needs opening. Beyond the legal penalties metted out by the law, the NCAA also needs to punish the PSU football program/administration for its misdeeds, all of which were carried out in an effort to protect the football money train. There's no getting around this basic issue. It's the job of the NCAA to discipline its member institutions, and PSU's athletic department/administration absolutely committed a multitude of LOIC-related violations.

[PSUFAN]

punishing the football program may not have any immediate, tangible benefits for Sandusky's victims

Thanks for understanding my point. Ending football at PSU is not a suitable answer for the abuse that was conducted by Sandusky and enabled by Curley, Schultz, Spanier, and Paterno - not even close.

[PSUFAN]

It's the job of the NCAA to discipline its member institutions, and PSU's athletic department/administration

False - it is not the job of the NCAA to discipline PSU's administration. You still have not made it clear what NCAA violations PSU's athletic department has committed, what's more. Not ceding that point to you is certainly not "spin" - that has been my point with you the whole time.

Again, I'll say it - Sandusky and his enablers committed crimes, not NCAA violations. I do understand that your conception of violations is a little murky, since day-to-day business at USC's athletic department basically consists of violations.

[War Wagon]

Again, I'll say it - Sandusky and his enablers committed crimes, not NCAA violations. I do understand...

What you apparently don't understand is that you were and are one of the enablers... and that you keep digging the hole deeper.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

it does send a LOUD and CLEAR message to any potential victims and university athletic department administrators in the future that covering up violent, felonious crimes against children will ABSOLUTELY NOT be tolerated and that any potential attempt by administrators to prevent the proper notification of law enforcement authorities of such crimes will ABSOLUTELY be prosecuted and punished by the NCAA to the furthest extent possible and that any attempts will have SEVERE FINANCIAL CONSEQUENCES, since that is all these administrators care about.

Thing is, punishment towards the institution is the least of these dudes' worries at this point. Their asses are on the line now, as individuals. If the prospects of a) losing your job, b) destroying your reputation and c) facing jail time, are not enough to prevent you from doing something awful, then I seriously doubt the prospect of some scholarship reductions and a bowl ban or two is even going to register on your who-gives-a-fuck radar.

[M Club]

M Club, yep, it would definitely open a can of worms, no arguments there. Still, that's a can that needs opening. Beyond the legal penalties metted out by the law, the NCAA also needs to punish the PSU football program/administration for its misdeeds, all of which were carried out in an effort to protect the football money train. There's no getting around this basic issue. It's the job of the NCAA to discipline its member institutions, and PSU's athletic department/administration absolutely committed a multitude of LOIC-related violations.

I see both sides of the issue and really don't have a firm opinion either way. But considering how hypocritically sanctimonious the NCAA is, I'd prefer to leave them out, otherwise some rando SEC school is going to feel the brunt of arbitrary fallout from what happened in Pennsylvania.

And while the words "lack of institutional control" certainly apply here, I'm not sure that's how LOIC is defined in the NCAA bylaws (forgive me for not having a copy on my nightstand). But like Screw mentioned, perhaps they are, in which case the good people at the NCAA will decide whether or not they're friends with the PSU folk before deciding on a course of action.

[The Seer]

Please explain to me what NCAA violations PSU has committed - or why the NCAA would have jurisdiction in criminal or civil matters.

Okay......let's pretend the NCAA had the foresight to include in their bylaws that ass raping kids by members of the football program is not permitted. THEN they would be guilty of an NCAA infraction.....

What would an appropriate punishment action look like to you?

[Van]

It's the job of the NCAA to discipline its member institutions, and PSU's athletic department/administration
False - it is not the job of the NCAA to discipline PSU's administration.

Yes, it is, insofar as the football program is concerned. It is their implicit duty.

You still have not made it clear what NCAA violations PSU's athletic department has committed, what's more.

Yes, I have, beyond a shadow of a doubt to anyone who isn't a PSU apologist still clinging to hopes of near-future success on the gridiron. You know...'cause it's all about the victims.

[Danimal]

If a player used his status with the program and program facilities for serious criminal activity then the coaches and the university covered it up to protect the program nobody would question a NCAA lack of institutional control investigation. Why should coaches be different?


Screw Michigan nailed it with his earlier post. The NCAA can't let this go.

[PSUFAN]

it does send a LOUD and CLEAR message to any potential victims and university athletic department administrators in the future that covering up violent, felonious crimes against children will ABSOLUTELY NOT be tolerated and that any potential attempt by administrators to prevent the proper notification of law enforcement authorities of such crimes will ABSOLUTELY be prosecuted and punished by the NCAA to the furthest extent possible and that any attempts will have SEVERE FINANCIAL CONSEQUENCES, since that is all these administrators care about.

Thing is, punishment towards the institution is the least of these dudes' worries at this point. Their asses are on the line now, as individuals. If the prospects of a) losing your job, b) destroying your reputation and c) facing jail time, are not enough to prevent you from doing something awful, then I seriously doubt the prospect of some scholarship reductions and a bowl ban or two is even going to register on your who-gives-a-fuck radar.

Exactly. Hey, if NCAA sanctions were the difference maker in shutting down sex abusers, like I said initially - I'd be in favor of them here. They are not, though. The real difference maker is support for organizations that work against abuse and in support of victims, and also the determination to lead the fight against abusers. Those are the things that have categorized the PSU community post-scandal, should the truth interest anyone.

[buckeye_in_sc]

if you are going to cover up this type of abuse...what ELSE did they cover up?

Rougue Booster payments?
Securing recruits?
etc, etc

I mean honestly people want to bag on Tressel for what he did and what happened at OSU...Joe Pa knew this was going on and only fired Jerry and still gave him access to the place? He is just as complicit as the rest...and it's funny PSU fans on boards were pounding OSU and JT for what seems MINOR compared to what this could bring...but they all defend Joe like he is still some Saint...dude knew kids were getting abused and FUCKING DID NOTHING except fire the asswipe but still let him around the joint...

say what you want...but if you covered this up again...what else would Joe and his grand experiment cover up...fuck Joe Pa and PSU