Time to get counseling, Van

[indyfrisco]

Yes, I wasn't neglecting to mention that on purpose. It's when the bottomfeeders of the Big 10, Big XII, SEC, etc. play all the shit teams (to get that 3-1 or 4-0 record) and have SOS in the 80-120 levels then it severely lowers the SOS of the top teams who also play cupcakes and then have to calculate that in along with their own conferences' bottomfeeders whose SOS sucks. I understand the math, to a certain degree and do no dispute it. I would much rather see better scheduling across the board of the BCS conference teams. However, right now, this is how the game is played and we are stuck with it.

That's why, while I respect the PAC teams for scheduling tough OOC, at the same time, you knew going in it was a risk for the overall picture and can gripe all you want. Everyone is playing by the same rules. Load up on cupcakes or risk a mark in the L column until things change which is looking like never until this thing blows the fuck up. At season's end, which is what I always go back to, it doesn't matter who is playing the best "RIGHT NOW." Once you get the L column populated, you're at the mercy of the voters and computers. If you still have a goosegg in the L column, you have every right to lay claim to a spot.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

Yeah, Indy, I get that, I'm just saying all conferences are essentially structured the same way: 1-2 good-to-great teams, a bunch of competitive middle of the packers, and then 1-2 cellar dwellers. The Pac is no exception. And while scheduling ambitiously is nice, it doesn't tell the whole story. Simply playing good teams doesn't mean you're any good, and besides, the Pac is a humble 7-6 vs BCS competition.

[indyfrisco]

This is my point. These are the SOS ratings according to Sagarin.

Washington - 1
UCLA - 2
USC - 5
Washington State - 6
Oregon - 8
Arizona - 9
Oregon State - 15
Cal - 16
Stanford - 20
Arizona St - 51

I agree there's a fair share of cupcakes, middle tier teams and a couple top teams. I'm simply saying the above is why they are rated so high because Sagarin puts a heavy emphasis on opponents and opponents' opponents SOS. Personally, I don't think the conference is that much better or worse than the XII, 10, or SEC, but they schedule better and get rewarded for it regardless of the record.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

Personally, I don't think the conference is that much better or worse than the XII, 10, or SEC, but they schedule better and get rewarded or it regardless of the record.

Yeah, that's where I'm at.

[Van]

To further illustrate how and why a computer based program like Sagarin's would rank the Pac 10's SOS so highly, here ya' go...

USC plays Ohio St and ND.

UCLA plays Tennessee and Kansas St.

Oregon plays Utah, Purdue and Boise St.

Oregon St plays Cincy.

Cal plays Maryland and Minnesota.

Stanford plays Wake Forest and ND.

Arizona plays Iowa.

Arizona St plays Georgia.

Washington plays LSU and ND.

Washington St plays ND.

So, out of thirty possible OOC games, Pac 10 teams play sixteen games against BCS conference opponents, about 55% - plus the roadie to Boise St. Every team plays at least one OOC game against a BCS conference opponent, despite having only three OOC games.

Now, by comparison, let's look at the Big 10...

Ohio St plays USC.

Michigan plays ND.

Michigan St plays ND.

Illiniois plays Mzzou and Cincy.

Indiana plays Virginia.

Iowa plays Iowa St and Arizona.

Northwestern plays Syracuse.

Purdue plays Oregon and ND.

Wisconsin plays none.

Penn St plays Syracuse.

Minnesota plays Syracuse and Cal.

So, out of forty four OCC games, the Big 10 plays fourteen games against BCS conference opponents, about 30%. They also play more than their fair share of D1-AA teams, and only eight conference games. One team plays no OOC games against BCS conference teams.

How does that look to you? It looks to me like the Pac 10 plays tougher schedules than the Big 10. Without having done the run down on the other BCS conferences, I feel pretty confident that the Pac 10 will end up having a similar advantage over the Big XII and SEC.

Ah, fuck it. Why guess? Let's do them too...

The Big XII...

Oklahoma plays Miami.

Okie St plays Georgia.

Kansas plays none.

Kansas St plays UCLA.

Nebraska plays Va Tech.

Colorado plays W. Virginia.

Texas plays none.

Texas A&M plays Arkansas.

Texas Tech plays none.

Baylor plays Wake Forest and UConn.

Iowa St plays Iowa.

Mizzou plays Illinois.

So, out of forty eight OOC games, the Big XII only plays ten games against BCS conference teams, or just over 20%. They also only play eight conference games, plus a shitload of D1-AA teams, and fully 25% of the conference plays no OOC games against BCS conference teams.

The Big XII will be tough to beat, for weakest scheduling.

The SEC...

Florida plays Florida St.

Georgia plays Okie St, Arizona St and Georgia Tech. (Very good, Georgia!)

S. Carolina plays Clemson and N.C. St.

Kentucky plays Louisville.

Tennessee plays UCLA.

Vandy plays Georgia Tech.

Arkansas plays Texas A&M.

LSU plays Washington.

Auburn plays W. Virginia.

Bama plays Va Tech.

Ole Miss plays none.

Mississippi plays Georgia Tech.

Out of forty eight OOC games, the SEC plays fourteen games against BCS conference teams, or under 30%. They play only eight conference games, they play more than their fair share of games against D1-AA teams, and one of their teams plays no OOC games against BCS conference opponents.

Only the Big XII is worse, and they're all miles behind the Pac 10.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

But I thought SOS was completely meaningless?

[Van]

But I thought I just explained that that's how Sagarin comes up with such strong SOS rankings for the Pac 10?

In fact...

To further illustrate how and why a computer based program like Sagarin's would rank the Pac 10's SOS so highly, here ya' go...

...yes, that's exactly what I said.

And you know what? He at least tries to level the playing field. The more teams play each other, and common opponents, and the more they shy away from phony games against stupid teams, the more the playing field gets leveled. Sagarin rewards the Pac 10 for getting out there and playing the other teams which he's forced to compare. They don't insulate themselves with eight conference games and four meaningless OOC games, which tell a computer nothing when it's asked to compare teams from different conferences.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

Just because you were talking about Sagarin doesn't mean I can't read between the lines. I know where you stand on the Pac 10 and its SOS.

You already dismissed the concept of SOS when you said this:

SOS is meaningless. Nobody's playing the same teams, so comparing stats and even records is meaningless.

But now you want to value it when it conveniently makes the Pac 10 look good?

[Van]

SOS pretty much is meaningless when comparing the schedules of individual teams from different conferences.

Comparing whole conferences though, based on a large sampling of data detailing which conferences are playing which teams, which is what I provided?

It's not the last word, but it is telling.

And yes, all in all, I absolutely do feel the Pac 10 usually plays tougher schedules than the Big 10. I don't believe in comparing the stats Texas compiled against their competition to those which Bama compiled against theirs, but hell yeah, I can look at USC's schedule or the Pac 10's in general and see that it's tougher than Big 10 schedules. I can see the teams each team has played, and I can see how each conference trends when scheduling.

The Pac 10 trends toward ambitious scheduling, and the Big 10 trends towards risk avoidance.

Don't like that assessment? Too bad. Produce something to disprove it. I've already shown that the Big 10 plays very few BCS conference teams OOC, and they only play eight conference games. On top of that, often times teams get to avoid playing the best teams in conference.

Compare that to the Pac 10's scheduling, if you can.

[War Wagon]

Mt. St. Jonsense has fully erupted! Epic melt....

Yep, but that's all too common. I can't imagine how someone can so often get so lathered up over what somebody else types on a message board... but our boy Jon never fails to disappoint.

Jon needs to beg, borrow, or just flat out steal Prime X's avatar.

Jon, a little lot less anger would do wonders for you. Keep going like this, and you'll need to see a doctor for that high blood pressure.

Lisinopril, remember that name. You're going to need it before you hit 30.

[TheJON]

Yep, but that's all too common. I can't imagine how someone can so often get so lathered up over what somebody else types on a message board... but our boy Jon never fails to disappoint.

Call out my team for bullshit reasons and I will call you out. Period.

Reason I'm pissed off is because tards like Van are going to keep Iowa from having a shot at a national title. It's faggot fans like him that ruin college football because they are actually the majority of your elite CFB fan bases. So who do you think the media caters to? Douchebags like Van. Why? Because the media sucks the cock of every elite program. And we all know the media decides the outcome of CFB's season. Oh sure, the AP Poll has been axed from the BCS rankings. However, their influence impacts the coaches/harris polls which make up 2/3 of the BCS standings. CFB is an elitist sport. If you try and deny that, you're clueless. Fans of elite programs (example, Vag) don't want programs like Iowa playing for something they think only they should play for. And so the media jumps on the anti-non elite program bandwagon because this is what idiots like Vag seem to think is right.

So I say, fuck that. These faggots aren't going to ruin the enjoyment of this season despite their best efforts to do so.

[TheJON]

Van, you are the biggest piece of shit these boards have ever seen. How dare YOU rip on anyone for ANY of that bullshit. You are the epitomy of a "sucker puncher". Fuck you, douchebag. Your childish garbage and insults you've thrown around on here leave you no fucking room to talk. You run your fucking mouth with the best of them, you don't have one fucking ounce of objectivity in your body, and nobody throws around childish takes more than YOU. You're the faggot that throws a sucker punch and then when he gets beat the fuck up, he goes and cries to the Principal about it. You want to run your fucking mouth and just expect people to take it. Fuck you dude. You got NO room to talk. Your act is flat out fucking bush league. Here's some advice, retard, don't run your fucking mouth with such biased bullshit and unknowledgable takes and you won't have responses like I give you. If you can't do that, go fucking play in traffic and get a fucking life.

Nevermind, looks like Jon took back what was his.

I earned the = bitch title with hard work. Try and give that shit to Vag, and I will fucking kidnap your dog. :D

[Van]

Yep, you sound like you're really enjoying yourself.



How many more times do you want to do yourself proud by burping up juvenile, schoolyard names? You're twenty eight? You sound more like a white trash eleven year old who just discovered naughty words.

You're a pox on this board, Jon. You're a stupid, simple boy.

[TheJON]

Van says....

How many more times do you want to do yourself proud by burping up juvenile, schoolyard names?

and then........

You sound more like a white trash eleven year old who just discovered naughty words.

and then.........

You're a stupid, simple boy.

Thanks for making owning your sorry ass so god damned easy.

[Van]

With only fourteen games out of forty four, what it looks like is the Big 10 is doing the best they can to schedule a minimum of BCS conference teams, instead loading up on home games against the Northern Iowas and Delaware States of the world.

Yep, that's what it looks like.

[PSUFAN]

jon = pitch

[Van]

Maybe Iowa can drop UNI and pick up Cal......they're a BCS team and the Hawks won't have to block 2 FG attempts to get the win. Sounds good to me.

Agreed. Sounds good to me too.

[M Club]

I earned the = bitch title with hard work. Try and give that shit to Vag, and I will fucking kidnap your dog. :D

i've only had one dog in my life. she was eaten by a witchdoctor.

[Killian]

jon = pitch

I think we've seen many times on this board that jon = catch in most of these debates.

[Terry in Crapchester]

NOJ,

You do know that Van and I have gone round and round on these boards about whether ND should join the Big Ten, don't you? In fact, part of the justification Van has used for his position is that ND should renew acquaintances with Iowa. Sound to you like he hates Iowa? Didn't think so.

In fact, NOJ, I'll let you in on a little secret: nobody hates Iowa. Okay, perhaps I'll take your word for it about Iowa State, but that's it. And there's a very simple reason for that: Iowa simply isn't important enough in the college football landscape for anyone to hate them. So if you see some examples of hatred toward Iowa on this board, rest assured that it is one thing and one thing only: much like it is with m2oodles and Kal, it's a reaction to you and your schtick here, rather than a reaction to the program you represent.

[Van]

So, Mace, what, is Jon trying to manufacture hatred for Iowa?

If so, he's doing a good job.

:D

[JMak]

Kinda like I scroll right past Jon's Iowa takes I scroll right past Van's SC takes. Got tired of the constant Ferentz-pimping and SC homerism.

Jon has to nut up and recognize that in the entire scheme of CFB Iowa rates as highly as Ole Miss or Clemson or Oregon State or any other mid-level team in a BCS conference.

Van has to recognize that no matter how many excuses he comes up with that SC still lost to Oregon and Oregon State and Stanford and that the usual litany of excuses doesn't erase those facts.

[Van]

That's how you avoid the upsets.

Mace, no one avoids the upsets. There is no proven method to ensure that your team never loses in an upset. With rare exceptions, every great team still loses a game here and there. Nobody wins every time, year after year.

Not only that, but Ferentz's attitude about "week to week" isn't one scintilla different than Carroll's, or Meyer's, or any other coach out there. Ferentz's teams get upset more often than Pete's do. His teams get upset more often than plenty of other teams. His "roll up his sleeves" work ethic is no different than anybody else's.

Every big time coach in America not named Paterno or Bowden works hard and puts in ridiculous hours, and they all preach the same things while spouting the same cautionary tales about the pitfalls of overlooking one's opponent.

There's nothing new under the sun. Quit acting like Ferentz is doing anything differently than Carroll, or any other coach. He's not. He's just having a dream season, and maybe along the way he might try 'rolling up his sleeves' to see about getting his team to stop sleepwalking through the first halves of most of their games.

[Nolesy]

Are we to expect multiple ban Van posts by Jon?

[Van]

Mace, Pete has suffered only a handful of losses in eight years, despite being favored in nearly every game. So, if anything, considering how few times he's lost as a favorite, he is the absolute master at getting his team up for every game. His record for not falling prey to the upset is without equal. Hell, he could write the book on how to keep a team consistently motivated to play each game.

Sweatervest could be his co-author, since that guy also nearly never loses as a favorite.

Kirk Ferentz? He's had far fewer occasions where his team could've lost in an upset, yet he's still lost as the favorite more than Pete has.

Basic math.

[Go Coogs']

I don't have a problem with Jon pimping his team because they are 9-0 and do have a puncher's chance at the BCS title game. He should be excited because this does not come very often, if ever, for Iowa fan.

But you have to put things in perspective. Iowa was ranked 22nd before the season began while Florida, Texas, and 'Bama ranked 1, 2, and 5. Iowa dropped in the rankings after surviving a DII school. Again, they survived. Then they nearly blew a 21-7 lead late in the 3rd quarter against Arkansas St. Couple that with their last second heroics against Michigan St. and the offense finally opening up against Indiana.

Okay, so they are undefeated but so is Texas, 'Bama, and Florida.

Texas' closest game was against a ranked opponent. All of their other games have been kneel downs in the 4th quarter sans maybe the Texas Tech game.

Florida has survived some games just like Iowa, but they handled their OOC opponents rather easily. Arkansas and Mississippi State gave Florida all they can handle, but I have to point this out because I think it’s important when you're the #1 team in the country and the defending National Champs. Everyone knows you are the defending champs, so it is my opinion that every team that play you are "getting up" for that game. They are going to sell out for that game. Had Miss State played against Houston the way they played against Florida, then UH would have two losses. They played their asses off on primetime TV against the #1 team in the country.

Bama was very impressive against Arkansas and Virginia Tech. Their defense pwned Ole Miss and S. Carolina. They struggled against Tennessee and needed a last second field goal block to stay undefeated. However, it WAS Tennessee. Not Northern Fucking Iowa.

The difference here is Iowa was unranked after week 1. Bama, Florida, and Texas were all in the top 5 after week one and rightfully so. For the most part, these schools have not had to perform miracles in order to stay undefeated. They have taken care of business for the most part while Iowa has been on the brink of losing on three separate occasions. This is why they aren't ranked 4th in the human polls. They aren't believable. Hey, it worked for Ohio State in 2001 and it just may work for Iowa this season. Who knows?

As for jON totally pimping his team and becoming a little stir crazy in the process, it’s understandable. Hell, I was bouncing off the fucking walls when Houston beat Texas Tech. But I, unlike jon, keep things in perspective. Houston barely beat Texas Tech and the Cowpokes shot themselves in the foot when we beat them in Stillwater. We haven't been ranked this high in 19 years. I'm geeked, but I know we're not BCS worthy. But I will tell you this; we can beat Iowa on any given Saturday. And they could beat us as well. That is the difference between Iowa and the three teams I mentioned in this post. I don't think Houston could beat Florida, Bama, or Texas on any given Saturday.

Therein lies the difference.

[Van]

'Co'og's', actually, on any given Saturday Houston absolutely could beat Florida, Bama or Texas. That's the whole point of "on any given Saturday." If enough weird shit happens, yep, they could beat any team in America. If enough weird shit happens they could also lose to nearly any team in America.

It's what typically happens between those extremes which defines teams.

[Go Coogs']

Alright, let me rephrase that, van.

Houston's best game against Iowa's best game. It's a toss up.

Houston's best game against Bama, Florida, Texas' best game? Houston loses.

[Van]

Alright, let me rephrase that, van.

Houston's best game against Iowa's best game. It's a toss up.

I'd almost call that one a toss-up. Not sure. I've not seen Iowa's best game...I hope. They better have a potential game in 'em that's better than what they've shown so far.

Houston's best game against Bama, Florida, Texas' best game? Houston loses.

Well, yeah.

Now, what's it going to take to get you to ditch that apostrophe?

[Go Coogs']

A PM and a bottle of Johhny Walker Blue to PSUFAN I suppose.

[indyfrisco]

More like re-register

[Go Coogs']

More like re-register

Again?

[indyfrisco]

We can change passwords. Just not bad punctuation on usernames.