Perspectives on Impeachment

[Smackie Chan]

The House has impeached the POTUS - now what? Conventional wisdom, history, and impeachment protocol dictate that the next step is for the House to send the Senate the Articles of Impeachment and the Senate will “try” the case. But Pelosi is being vague so far about what her next move may be, and it’s kinda fun to speculate about her options, what she may choose to do, her reasons for possibly taking certain actions, and the consequences that may spring from them.

I watched some of the ongoings during the impeachment process and a little news coverage of it, but not much; certainly not as much as I’m sure some of you have. So it’s possible that what follows has already been discussed by the pundits. If so, this will sound like regurgitation. If/when it does start to appear that way, feel free to stop reading.

There’s no question about the country’s polarization and how it affects perspectives regarding impeachment. If you’re a Democrat, the POTUS committed atrocious, impeachable acts that threaten the very foundation of our (so-called) democracy and, if left unpunished, will give the green light to all future Presidents to recklessly act as if they’re above the law and inflict irreparable harm to our nation for generations to come. If you’re a Republican, the attitude toward his actions is “no harm, no foul,” and it’s the Democrats, through their abuse and cheapening of the impeachment process, who are truly threatening our country and causing the FFs to turn in their graves.

But if you take a step back and try REALLY hard to set aside partisanship and just analyze the gamesmanship, it turns what both sides consider to be somber tragedy into low-brow comedy. Consider the scenario: to date, the Democrat-majority House has been able to make all the rules, within loose guidelines, regarding how the impeachment process worked. And virtually everyone, participants and spectators alike, knew what the outcome would be. There have been no real surprises and there will be none going forward if, indeed, it does proceed as most people expect. The House was certain to impeach, and the Senate is certain to acquit.

In my opinion, the Democrats took a gamble to impeach (I won’t go so far as to say it was a calculated one, since it appeared all along to be based more on emotion than logic), and it’s one I don’t think will turn out well for them. The best they could hope for was that the public airing of Trump’s actions and the bluster of the Democratic House Representatives and witnesses would leave such a sour taste in the mouths of voters that he’d be “one-and-done” come 2021. The only consequential targets were independent voters; Trump’s base of Republican voters were never going to turn on him, and all the impeachment process did for Democrats was to get them all frothy at the mouth about what they already believed or suspected. I’ve gone on record since well before the decision to impeach was made that I believe Trump will be re-elected, and I still believe he will be. My track record for such predictions is less than stellar, so take it for what it’s worth.

Getting back to what might happen going forward, one option is that the Pelosi-led Dems will choose NOT to send the Articles to the Senate. This could be viewed as a stroke of genius or an act of genuine imbecility. From the genius perspective, what do the Dems have to gain by sending the Articles to the Senate? They know as well as everybody else that there is ZERO chance of it resulting in Trump’s removal from office. And by sending the Articles forward, they are ceding the control they’ve enjoyed to this point to the Republican Senate, and McConnell has already said that he is not going to proceed in an impartial manner. In fact, the Senate leadership is already discussing game planning with the White House regarding how the proceedings will go. In other words, the fix is in, just as it was when the House called all the shots.

So from Pelosi’s perspective, why give the Republican Senate the opportunity to take control of the narrative and allow them to have their side of the story heard last, with the possibility that Trump will now take the opportunity to defend himself? The Democrats have gone as far as they can with this, so why not end it now? There’s no reasonable upside for them in a Senate trial. The damage has been done to Trump - he’s been impeached and that will be his historical legacy. The Dems got what they wanted short of having him removed, which was never a viable possibility anyway.

If Pelosi chooses not to send the Articles to the Senate, it can be viewed from a gambling perspective as quitting while you’re ahead - of cashing in all the chips you’ve won before losing them back to the house, which is smart. Another perspective is one of taking her ball and going home before the game is over, which will be seen as childish and a failure to complete what has been started. It’s tantamount to Lucy pulling the ball away from Charlie Brown before he has a chance to kick it. Neither of those perspectives is wrong, and it’s sorta funny to watch from the sidelines if you’re an impartial observer. Lucy (the Democrat) appears to be the “winner” of the prank, while Charlie Brown (the Republican) looks like a hapless loser. But all the risk going forward is on the Democrats regardless of what Pelosi decides to do. The Republicans really have nothing more to lose, and it’s arguable how much they actually have already lost.

Pelosi can try to sell the decision to not proceed to the American public by saying it would be a waste of taxpayer dollars and lawmakers’ time to hold a trial in which the outcome is a foregone conclusion, which few voters will be likely to buy. This will leave a bitter taste in the mouths of Democrats, who may still cling to some thread of hope that enough Republican Senators will actually vote to convict, and also with Republicans, who will be denied their day in “court” and their chance to defend their leader. To me, this is a no-win situation for the Dems, and I believe Pelosi knew this going in, which is why she was initially hesitant to impeach. If she chooses to not proceed, the Republicans will legitimately be able to claim that the impeachment was politically motivated and a wasteful charade. If it does proceed, they will claim vindication when he is acquitted.

Bottom line: The decision to impeach was not a wise one, and will end up doing exactly the opposite of what Democrats had hoped it would do. For better or worse, expect Trump to win a second term.

[smackaholic]

It all comes down to one simple fact.

What Trump did has a plausible explanation, based on the following facts.

Ukraine WAS and may still be the Saudi Arabia of political corruption.

There is absolutely NO possible explanation of how Joe Biden's life-long fukk-up of a kid, gets a very well paying gig on that board. All the cries of "discredited allegations" do not change this fact.

Joe Biden, in classic Joe Biden style is on videotape admitting to.....no, make that, bragging about doing EXACTLY what congress now says is an impeachable act.

The dems say that this is taboo, because it results in a political gain to Trump.

To argue that taking Sleepy, Crazy, Hairy legged Joe off the board is not of possible political benefit would be silly. Of course it is.

So fukking what?

Practically every decision these vile political creatures make has a political effect. Some good, some bad. It does not mean these decisions should be avoided.

Trump can, with a strait face and more than a little evidence, rightly say he leaned on the new HNIC of Ukraine to look into it.

He did not say manufacture dirt.

If congress could show that he was leaning on the HNICoU to cook up bad shit about Sleepy Joe that was fake, they'd have a case.

They didn't. Not even close. And wouldn't you want to know that a prospective POTUS wasn't guilty of such BS?

This is going to go very badly for the dems. John Durham is on the scent, as is Rudy. The next few months will be interesting.

[Dr_Phibes]

Bottom line: The decision to impeach was not a wise one, and will end up doing exactly the opposite of what Democrats had hoped it would do. For better or worse, expect Trump to win a second term.

That's what Canadian media is saying, it's all political theatre. I don't pretend to understand all the workings of American Government - but it seems an odd thing for everyone involved to be frothing at the mouth over it.

[smackaholic]

Pelosi's sitting on this would be just another example of her being a complete fukking moron. I hope she does for a few weeks.

Hand it over, Nancy. And don't worry how the Turtle handles it. It ain't your party. It's his.

[The State]

From the genius perspective, what do the Dems have to gain by sending the Articles to the Senate? They know as well as everybody else that there is ZERO chance of it resulting in Trump’s removal from office.

Are you really this stupid? Or was today a "wake and bake" day ?

Bottom line: The decision to impeach was not a wise one, and will end up doing exactly the opposite of what Democrats had hoped it would do. For better or worse, expect Trump to win a second term.

You're wrong a lot for a reason.

[Screw_Michigan]

It all comes down to one simple fact.

What Trump did has a plausible explanation, based on the following facts.

Ukraine WAS and may still be the Saudi Arabia of political corruption.

There is absolutely NO possible explanation of how Joe Biden's life-long fukk-up of a kid, gets a very well paying gig on that board. All the cries of "discredited allegations" do not change this fact.

Joe Biden, in classic Joe Biden style is on videotape admitting to.....no, make that, bragging about doing EXACTLY what congress now says is an impeachable act.

The dems say that this is taboo, because it results in a political gain to Trump.

To argue that taking Sleepy, Crazy, Hairy legged Joe off the board is not of possible political benefit would be silly. Of course it is.

So fukking what?

Practically every decision these vile political creatures make has a political effect. Some good, some bad. It does not mean these decisions should be avoided.

Trump can, with a strait face and more than a little evidence, rightly say he leaned on the new HNIC of Ukraine to look into it.

He did not say manufacture dirt.

If congress could show that he was leaning on the HNICoU to cook up bad shit about Sleepy Joe that was fake, they'd have a case.

They didn't. Not even close. And wouldn't you want to know that a prospective POTUS wasn't guilty of such BS?

This is going to go very badly for the dems. John Durham is on the scent, as is Rudy. The next few months will be interesting.

Lol, you are beyond parody. The Orange Bad Man withheld congressionally appropriated funding (illegal) from an ally who is under attack from an adversary (bad) in order to extort the ally (illegal) into interfering with our 2020 election (super illegal x100000) because he benefited from Russian interference in the 2016 election.

Of course, you don't find anything wrong with that scenario in the least. Because like Left Shitter and your ilk, you despise democracy and are willing to live under fascist authoritarianism as long as it's the kind that benefits you.

I mean this with all sincerity---Fuck you.

[Screw_Michigan]

Oh, and I forgot. Trump and his henchmen, especially Rudy but also including Mulvaney and other Trump Crime Family associates, are taking Russian mob money in exchange for making policy decisions that benefit the Kremlin and Russian mobsters and hurt Ukraine.

I mean if you can't impeach this horrifically putrid pile of human waste for this, you will never be able to impeach a future president for anything.

[Screw_Michigan]

You're wrong a lot for a reason.

He spends much of his waking life making excuses for the Orange Bad Man. I wonder why?

[The State]

You're wrong a lot for a reason.

He spends much of his waking life making excuses for the Orange Bad Man. I wonder why?

He lives in Arizona and was a government worker for one. Arizona with its influx of new residents has become the new "Orange" county.

Two. He feels it's wrong for politicians to stand by their oath of office. In regards, to saying impeachment was the wrong road to go down.

Bottom line: Nancy Pelosi knows exactly what she is doing. She's smart. She's from San Francisco. This will unfold rather soon... and you will know why she is doing what she is doing.

This will be Trump's last term in office. One of the reasons he was elected was everyone hated Hillary more than they liked Trump. Bozo the clown would have beat Hillary if he was running as a Republican. Actually, he may have.

[Smackie Chan]

He spends much of his waking life making excuses for the Orange Bad Man. I wonder why?

I do? Link me up to where I've done it even once, bro.

[smackaholic]

You're wrong a lot for a reason.

He spends much of his waking life making excuses for the Orange Bad Man. I wonder why?

He lives in Arizona and was a government worker for one. Arizona with its influx of new residents has become the new "Orange" county.

Two. He feels it's wrong for politicians to stand by their oath of office. In regards, to saying impeachment was the wrong road to go down.

Bottom line: Nancy Pelosi knows exactly what she is doing. She's smart. She's from San Francisco. This will unfold rather soon... and you will know why she is doing what she is doing.

This will be Trump's last term in office. One of the reasons he was elected was everyone hated Hillary more than they liked Trump. Bozo the clown would have beat Hillary if he was running as a Republican. Actually, he may have.

If you paid the slightest bit of attention, you’d know SC is no fan of TBOM, but he sees this for the farce it is.

Across the country there are millions like him who don’t like Trump, but aren’t democrat shills.

Many of them will vote for crazy orange guy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Smackie Chan]

From the genius perspective, what do the Dems have to gain by sending the Articles to the Senate? They know as well as everybody else that there is ZERO chance of it resulting in Trump’s removal from office.

Break it down for me, Sparky. You actually believe the Senate will remove him from office? Tell me how this is gonna play out.

Bottom line: The decision to impeach was not a wise one, and will end up doing exactly the opposite of what Democrats had hoped it would do. For better or worse, expect Trump to win a second term.

You're wrong a lot for a reason.

Elucidate (rather than hallucinate). I'm not saying I can't be wrong - I may very well be. Which of the current slate of Democrat candidates do you believe can beat him? Who gets your vote?

MS presented a cogent argument a few months ago regarding how a Democrat might unseat Trump in the next general election. I'm certainly not saying it can't be done, I just don't see it happening as long as the economy stays strong between now and then and joblessness remains low. The Democrats appear to be running on a platform focusing on climate change, gun control, and health care. While health care is an issue that people care a lot about, most care more about jobs, low taxes, and ensuring their IRAs continue to grow than they do about climate change, and I'm doubtful that proposed tighter gun control legislation is going to sway enough voters to make much of a difference. And the impeachment will be old news by the time the Democratic convention is over, and isn't going to change many minds anyway. But again, I've been wrong before, and I may be again. We'll see.

[Smackie Chan]

Oh, and I forgot. Trump and his henchmen, especially Rudy but also including Mulvaney and other Trump Crime Family associates, are taking Russian mob money in exchange for making policy decisions that benefit the Kremlin and Russian mobsters and hurt Ukraine.

I mean if you can't impeach this horrifically putrid pile of human waste for this, you will never be able to impeach a future president for anything.

Anytime in the near future, the only way a POTUS will be removed from office by impeachment is if the opposition party controls both chambers of Congress, or if the split is nearly even. Otherwise, partisan politics will almost always win the day.

[EAP]

You're wrong a lot for a reason.

He spends much of his waking life making excuses for the Orange Bad Man. I wonder why?

You've been wrong about nearly everything since I got here.

The process in the house was not impartial in any way shape or form.
Meaning quite simply, it was a complete and utter joke.

The Senate noting no actual crimes, will correctly dismiss.

The fact that you don't understand that?
Is fucking priceless and shows you to be off kilter with shades of instability.

When trump wins re-election, it will be the most stunning political event in world history.

The socialists will look like complete deviant fools.

Now I know why 88 destroys you in every single debate.

[Screw_Michigan]

I do? Link me up to where I've done it even once, bro.

Ok, sorry. You don't make excuses for him but your very, say, nihilist about everything he's done and how nothing is ever going to happen to him.

Better?

[Smackie Chan]

You don't make excuses for him but your very, say, nihilist about everything he's done and how nothing is ever going to happen to him.

Better?

Better, but still not totally accurate. To the extent that being impeached constitutes something happening to him, that's already done, so his legacy has been permanently tarnished. That means a lot to him, so at least to a small extent (very small, imo), he's already been punished. But he won't be removed from office, and he may very well be the first impeached President to win reelection. So yeah, I still stand by my "nihilist" view that he won't have to pay anything significant for his sins, while you cling to your Pollyannish view that the world is fair.

[EAP]

You don't make excuses for him but your very, say, nihilist about everything he's done and how nothing is ever going to happen to him.

Better?

Better, but still not totally accurate. To the extent that being impeached constitutes something happening to him, that's already done, so his legacy has been permanently tarnished. That means a lot to him, so at least to a small extent (very small, imo), he's already been punished. But he won't be removed from office, and he may very well be the first impeached President to win reelection. So yeah, I still stand by my "nihilist" view that he won't have to pay anything significant for his sins, while you cling to your Pollyannish view that the world is fair.

Excuse me?
The jury is still out on his legacy being tarnished.
Because should he win re-election next year?
I promise you that partisan stunt in the left wing socialist house will mean absolutely nothing.

Take that to the bank.

[Kierland]

SC,
We are not more polarized than usual.
This is just a last gasp at racism by the white ruling class.
We appear more polarized because people are standing up and the ruling class has no rational reason why they should get all the goodies (as they never do) and so they will say and do anything. Look at poll taxes and opposition to Brown v Board to the drug war and redlining.
It’s weird how people like you that seem to read and care and aren’t idiots can be so clueless and gullible.

[Kierland]

You don't make excuses for him but your very, say, nihilist about everything he's done and how nothing is ever going to happen to him.

Better?

Better, but still not totally accurate. To the extent that being impeached constitutes something happening to him, that's already done, so his legacy has been permanently tarnished. That means a lot to him, so at least to a small extent (very small, imo), he's already been punished. But he won't be removed from office, and he may very well be the first impeached President to win reelection. So yeah, I still stand by my "nihilist" view that he won't have to pay anything significant for his sins, while you cling to your Pollyannish view that the world is fair.

You might want to learn more about narcissists before you decide how little Cheetolini cares about his orange asterisk.

[Screw_Michigan]

Swamp creatures are kicking and screaming because Trump is showing us how they have been profiting off of their offices and they dont want to lose all of the money and power they dont deserve but take anyway.

He, his family, and his fucking henchmen are profiting from his office, you god forsaken moron.

Fuck you are stupid.

[EAP]

SC,
We are not more polarized than usual.
This is just a last gasp at racism by the white ruling class.
We appear more polarized because people are standing up and the ruling class has no rational reason why they should get all the goodies (as they never do) and so they will say and do anything. Look at poll taxes and opposition to Brown v Board to the drug war and redlining.
It’s weird how people like you that seem to read and care and aren’t idiots can be so clueless and gullible.

You really are a clueless empty vessel.
Racism exists in EVERY race.
For you to just put racism in the white race only, proves beyond a shadow of a doubt, that you are not only ignorant, but mentally unstable as well

[Kierland]

Always blame the other side.
There are black racists so we can like do whatever.
Kill leftist scum.
Fire up the ovens.
Trust the process.

Sin,
88ovens

[Kierland]

Leftist scum have been trying to overturn the will of the people since Trump was elected. Before he was even inaugurated they were accusing Trump of everything they themselves have been doing.
Pelosi pushed this through congress because her family is as dirty in this as the Bidens are and she wants to keep everyone from finding out how much US tax payer money was laundered through the Ukraine and paid to her kid.
Swamp creatures are kicking and screaming because Trump is showing us how they have been profiting off of their offices and they dont want to lose all of the money and power they dont deserve but take anyway.
The senate should just put the thing up to vote and throw it out immediately

Is it possible for you to articulate why the Orange Man is not bad WITHOUT mentioning a “Leftist” or a Democrat?

[Wolfman]

He, his family, and his ****ing henchmen are profiting from his office
Wow. That has never happened before. Such insight.

[Kierland]

He, his family, and his ****ing henchmen are profiting from his office
Wow. That has never happened before. Such insight.

And yet you just keep bending over and taking it from your side when they do it because you are a stupid droning sheep.

[Screw_Michigan]

He, his family, and his ****ing henchmen are profiting from his office
Wow. That has never happened before. Such insight.

I'm amazed you were ever entrusted with teaching America's youts.

[Screw_Michigan]

while you cling to your Pollyannish view that the world is fair.

Lol, when did I ever say the world is fair?

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

He, his family, and his ****ing henchmen are profiting from his office
Wow. That has never happened before. Such insight.

I'm amazed you were ever entrusted with teaching America's youts.

It was the greatest generation.

[EAP]

Always blame the other side.
There are black racists so we can like do whatever.
Kill leftist scum.
Fire up the ovens.
Trust the process.

Sin,
88ovens

Blaming others is the reason for your entire pathetic existence.

That is the most truthful thing ever posted.

[Softball Bat]

Setting aside all of the political strategy angles...


The House did the right thing.

It is CLEARLY rightful for Donald to be impeached -- and he should be removed from office.

The House is on the right side of history.

[EAP]

Setting aside all of the political strategy angles...


The House did the right thing.

It is CLEARLY rightful for Donald to be impeached -- and he should be removed from office.

The House is on the right side of history.

Setting aside your low IQ take.
The house CLEARLY is on the wrong side of history with their strictly partisan political move to impeach..

History clearly will show that the left's blatant partisanship showed contempt for our constitution as so eloquently stated by the Senate leader Mitch McConnell.

And, the history of this board will clearly show that your low IQ take shows great contempt for our constitution as well.

We move to censure you.

[smackaholic]

Setting aside all of the political strategy angles...


The House did the right thing.

It is CLEARLY rightful for Donald to be impeached -- and he should be removed from office.

The House is on the right side of history.

Clearly, huh?

Do you see the Bidens' activities in Ukraine as OK? Do you buy the "discredited" line?

[Screw_Michigan]

Clearly, huh?

Do you see the Bidens' activities in Ukraine as OK? Do you buy the "discredited" line?

What the Bidens "did" in Ukraine is irrelevant and no US president has any fucking business asking another nation to investigate US citizens for him or her. The US can perform its own investigations into its own citizens, you traitorous prick.

[Kierland]

Setting aside all of the political strategy angles...


The House did the right thing.

It is CLEARLY rightful for Donald to be impeached -- and he should be removed from office.

The House is on the right side of history.

Clearly, huh?

Do you see the Bidens' activities in Ukraine as OK? Do you buy the "discredited" line?

I’ll ask again. Can you defend Cheetolini without bringing up dems?

[mvscal]

What the Bidens "did" in Ukraine is irrelevant and no US president has any fucking business asking another nation to investigate US citizens for him or her. The US can perform its own investigations into its own citizens, you traitorous prick.

What the Bidens did is not only relevant it is an affirmative defense of his action. I'll dumb it down for you because you're a fucking moron: He was doing his job, dumbfuck.

SEC. 8. SANCTIONS ON PERSONS RESPONSIBLE FOR VIOLENCE OR
UNDERMINING THE PEACE, SECURITY, STABILITY, SOVEREIGNTY, OR TERRITORIAL INTEGRITY OF UKRAINE.
(a) IN GENERAL.—The President shall impose the sanctions
described in subsection (b) with respect to—
(1) any person, including a current or former official of
the Government of Ukraine or a person acting on behalf of
that Government, that the President determines has perpetrated, or is responsible for ordering, controlling, or otherwise
directing, significant acts of violence or gross human rights
abuses in Ukraine against persons associated with the
antigovernment protests in Ukraine that began on November
21, 2013;
(2) any person that the President determines has perpetrated, or is responsible for ordering, controlling, or otherwise
directing, significant acts that are intended to undermine the
peace, security, stability, sovereignty, or territorial integrity
of Ukraine, including acts of economic extortion;

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/PLA ... publ95.pdf

If threatening to withhold a billion dollars in aid money until the prosecutor investigating your crackhead son's employer is fired isn't economic extortion, then there is no such thing as economic extortion.

"Sonuvabitch...he got fired."

[Kierland]

A) What he did, even if it was “wrong” is not a defense to the crimes your SudaMeth snorting Dear Leader committed that I cited and you ignored. The other guy was speeding too isn’t a defense Tad.
B) From your own link (you know, the part you didn’t enlarge):
It has to undermine the “peace, security, stability, sovereignty, or territorial integrity” of Ukraine which shitcanning some garbage isn’t.
Anything else you racist, kid-fucking POS?

[Kierland]

Setting aside all of the political strategy angles...


The House did the right thing.

It is CLEARLY rightful for Donald to be impeached -- and he should be removed from office.

The House is on the right side of history.

Clearly, huh?

Do you see the Bidens' activities in Ukraine as OK? Do you buy the "discredited" line?

Can you defend the call without bringing up Dems?

[EAP]

He, his family, and his ****ing henchmen are profiting from his office
Wow. That has never happened before. Such insight.

And yet you just keep bending over and taking it from your side when they do it because you are a stupid droning sheep.

You spend your whole life bent over as a socialist.
You haven't learned anything about history, which is why you are clueless about your own party.

Socialists and communists are cut from the same cloth in that they require government control in order to function.

By definition, government control is authoritarian and the enemy of liberty and our Bill of rights.
You've been lied to, duped and manipulated so much so, that you don't have the ability to think critically about any of this.

Good luck.

[Kierland]

Liberty
Like the Drug War
Liberty

[EAP]

Setting aside all of the political strategy angles...


The House did the right thing.

It is CLEARLY rightful for Donald to be impeached -- and he should be removed from office.

The House is on the right side of history.

Clearly, huh?

Do you see the Bidens' activities in Ukraine as OK? Do you buy the "discredited" line?

Can you defend the call without bringing up Dems?

Of course we can.

Hunter Biden working for a corrupt oligarch while his daddy is the vice president, is completely unethical. Plus, it's a criminal oligarch. Joe Biden threatened to call the president, his boss Obama, who also ok'd the quid pro quo to protect his drug addict son.

Joe's days are numbered..